Shop / Garage Build.... Need Your Opinion!!

[CornDogsCharger]

Well, I'm FINALLY at the point where I am getting ready to have a shop/garage built at my home.  I would like to ask for anyone's opinion on their past experiences.  This is my first "real" shop, so I'd like to walk away with minimal regrets after it is finished.  I am not loaded, so the cost of building is very important.  Luckily, my land is clear and very flat... so it will need little or no dirt work.  I am going with a pole-barn type construction (best bang for your buck on permanent construction, in my opinion).  I would really like a wing-barn, mostly because I like the overhead loft for addition storage, but I'm not really crazy about having a few poles in the middle of the shop.  I need to park at least four B-bodies in the shop, and 1-2 of them need to be comfortable to work on.  I'm considering a 30ft deep x 40ft wide shop.  I'm not 100% stuck on the wing-barn though... I would also consider doing a gable roof barn and maybe build enclosed lean-tos on the side and a loft within it.  I'm open to whatever works best and is cost efficient. 

Below is a 30x40 wing barn that I am considering.  I would want a concrete slab in it, but I do not necessarily need the windows and sky-lights.  Thank you for any advice along with photos and dimensions of you shops.

Justin
"CornDog"

[Old Moparz]

A 30'x40' building should be good enough for 4 cars. Mine is 36' wide & I've had 4 cars in there side by side one winter in a pinch before I had my lifts. The building depth varies because I staggered the rear wall to get between my property line & my septic system. I use the deepest part as the work area & it's adequate. The second floor is unfinished & for storage. I am glad I have it & the additional cost was minimal since it only really added the cost of the I-beams, larger floor joists, plywood subflooring & the windows. The advantage is doubling your square footage without impacting your property size or increasing the concrete floor area.

There are certain parts of the construction that can be completed in different phases to help keep the initial cost down, but planning is the key. For example, I stubbed the utilities (water, sewer & electric) up through the floor so they can be added later when I finished the building. One regret with that is that I only ran 2 conduits for the electric, one for the primary feed & one for low voltage & telephone.

I wish I had added another because I had to pull wires back out to add a 2nd coaxial cable later. The water & sewer are still not connected, but they are capped & come out under the wall & terminate about 3' from the building. If you go with underground service make sure you put 1 or 2 extra conduits in the ground & leave them empty. Conduit is cheap compared to cutting through the floor or the wall later to add it.

If you can avoid columns (support poles) within the building, go for it. It makes moving unfinished projects much easier when nothing is in the way. Besides, you never have an obstruction for a car door. I have 2 steel I-beams that only added $650 to the total cost of materials. I also have a trolley on one of the beams for my chain hoist. I don't use it much, but it sure is handy & I am glad it's there for heavy items since I am alone most of the time.

Go for the highest ceiling height that zoning & budget will allow you. If you ever add a lift, a standard 8' ceiling isn't going to work. The 4 post lifts require less head room than the 2 post ones, but you will want about 12 feet to stay clear of the ceiling with the car roof & still be able to stand underneath it. It's also important to consider the overhead door location & where the car will be when it's in the elevated position. You don't want the car or the lift to obstruct the door when it's open & rolled up.

I didn't want windows in my garage either but after I got the sheathing on the walls & the roof it was as dark as a cave. I cut out the walls before I sided it & added 4 fixed windows to let some light in on the first floor. Yes, electric lights will solve that problem but natural light is a big plus. There are many times I go out to the garage to get something & don't have to turn lights on since daylight does it.

Things you can do or add later as budget allows......

Insulation
Drywall
Additional lighting
Sink or toilet
Flooring

Some photos of mine.....

Layout on 1st floor:


Layout on 2nd floor:


Ceiling with I-Beams:


Empty 2nd floor:


Front of garage:


Inside 1st floor:

[Cooter]

Whatever you build Justin, In the end, it will be too small....

I could have a 200'X200' Shop and find a way to pack it so tight you couldn't touch your ass with both hands.

[Old Moparz]

Whatever you build Justin, In the end, it will be too small....

I could have a 200'X200' Shop and find a way to pack it so tight you couldn't touch your ass with both hands.

He's right about going with a bigger building, make sure you build the largest you can afford.


Although I'm not sure about Cooter not reaching his ass, that could simply be the result of too much sweet potato pie.   

[Mytur Binsdirti]

Figure out on paper the size you want, then double it. You'll be glad you did.

[skip68]

    It's better to have the space and not need it than to need the space and not have it.   

[PocketThunder]

Figure out on paper the size you want, then double it. You'll be glad you did.

Since you are going with a pole building, position it on your lot so that you can add onto it in the future.  If you are on a tight budget, build a 30x40 that you want now, then in the near future when its full, you can add on another 30' or 40' or whatever.   

[CornDogsCharger]

Figure out on paper the size you want, then double it. You'll be glad you did.

Since you are going with a pole building, position it on your lot so that you can add onto it in the future.  If you are on a tight budget, build a 30x40 that you want now, then in the near future when its full, you can add on another 30' or 40' or whatever.   

Thanks for all the input guys!  I've always know about "getting more than I'll need", but I won't know where to stop. Ha!  No matter what size, I'll manage to fill it up and will need morespace. I plan to add on to it later down the road, regardless of size. I have 5 acres, so there's plenty room to grow.   great looking shop Old Moparz! I love it!

Justin
"CornDog"

[Patronus]

Figure out on paper the size you want, then double it. You'll be glad you did.

Since you are going with a pole building, position it on your lot so that you can add onto it in the future.  If you are on a tight budget, build a 30x40 that you want now, then in the near future when its full, you can add on another 30' or 40' or whatever.   

Definitely agree in the adding-on part. Address this in the design for later on and you can save the gable wall.

[twodko]

As far as a pole barn design, if that's the architecture you like build it with DuraLam beams and eliminate Poles.
Like the rest of the crew says, build as big as you can afford with as many extras as your budget allows. 

[Cooter]

Although I'm not sure about Cooter not reaching his ass, that could simply be the result of too much sweet potato pie.  

Wasn't referring to mine. Referring to his ass. Alotta women like touching my ass for some reason, but no dudes. That's just ghay. And it's Candied Yams, not sweet-tater-pie.

Justin, Definately double your plans. At very least 1 1/2 times. You need space for four cars now, but once you have it, you will need space for 8 cars.

[Homerr]

The forums over at Garage Journal are a great resource for all things garage.

http://www.garagejournal.com/

[twodko]

Cooterman you numba 1 funny!

[RTDaddy]

40 ft is not enough.  I built 28' x 40" to park 4 cars, not intending to work on them.  3 B-bodies and an E.  You need at least 42, take it from me.   

"IF YOU'RE UNDER CONTROL, YOU AIN'T GOING FAST ENOUGH."

[remta1]

yeuup, work out the maximum size you want to build and build it bigger 

enough room for a hoist too

you can always fill it with another toy if you have more room

[Mike DC]

  
My thoughts:


Heating -

huge shop = utterly impractical to heat in winter.  

I'm not saying to build a small shop.  But it would be nice to have some portion of the floor space that could be isolated (hang plastic sheeting, etc) for a few months in the winter.  And the impact of the ceiling height on this issue cannot be overstated. If you have one low-ceiling area, that's the spot to use for this.



Windows -

Yes, you want them.  Sunlight is so much brighter than artificial lighting it's not even funny.  The only reason that artificial lighting does people any good at all is because our eyes adjust radically when we move indoors.    And it's better to have windows on walls facing several directions if you can.  The sun moves.  



Storage space -

I agree with everyone else, too much will never be enough.  Guys who wouldn't like more storage space for their car project are about as common as guys who wouldn't like more money to spend on it.  Just do what you can today and leave yourself the option to add more later.



Shelves -

Everyone thinks about storing whole car bodies, and everyone thinks about storing stuff on small shelves.  What about in between?  If I was building a shop I would include some BIG shelving for stuff like whole fenders, car seats, wheels/tires, etc.  Use thick plywood for the surfaces, horizontal 2x4s or 2x6s underneath, and 4x4s for the vertical legs.  The resulting shelves should be strong enough to hold up just about anything that one or two guys could manually lift up onto them.  

You can always subdivide the huge shelf openings with store-bought shelving for smaller stuff.  But you can't go the other way and make small store-bought shelving hold stuff that is far too big & heavy for it.

[skip68]

Do yourself a favor and put in a small bath with a shower if you can.     It makes life much better having a bath in the shop for yourself and any guest that are over.  This will become your man cave and keeps the need for going in the house (where women and kids might be) to a minimum.   

[NHCharger]

When I designed my shop the original drawing was 26x40. Ended up at 30x88. 50' is heated shop, 38' for three garage bays. Built lots of shelves for storage, the trusses over the garage area were designed for  storage. 11' ceilings in shop for lift (still don't have). I only have 4 double hung windows and two small awning windows in the shop. I painted the windows on the inside so no one can peek into the shop (yes I can be a little paranoid). Majority of my time in the shop is after dark and more windows equal higher heating bill.

[shart70rt]

I built a 30*40 Metal building. 12 foot walls, so no problem with the four post lift.

I have just built one loft, 13*8 ft, 8 ft tall. Store all kinds of things on top, and have all of my roll around stuff stored underneath it; drill press; hydraulic press; shop vac; oil drain container (10 gallon); woodworking tools;

I will add a set of stairs to the loft in the next few weeks.

There are engineered steel trusses at 13 ft from each end. The lift is centered between them. From each truss, I have pull down drop lights, multi outlet power cords, and air lines. All of these are run in 3 inch by 3 inch Panduit. Makes adding circuits easy in the future. It makes it so much easier to work on the car, when all of the utilities are available on both sides.

When the slab was poured, had them run pipes for water and septic. Have not used them yet, but they are there when I put an office in there. Have lines for sink, shower, and toilet. Already have the sink, toilet, shower, window unit A/C and hot water heater. Just need to build out the office in that corner. It will have the same dimension loft on top of it.

Have one walk door, and two 12 ft wide roll up doors. One door sits where the lift is in center of shop, the other one is on the side.

Have 8 feet of dual bulb fluorescent lights on each side of shop. Light switches are by the walk door.

Like everyone else, wish I could have afforded a building 3 times as large. Also wish I could afford to cool the whole thing. Summers on the Texas Gulf Coast are brutal. I have a Porta-Cool evaporation cooler that I pull around and point at myself wherever I am working in the shop.