Exhaust balance tube. X or H?

[COKE]

I,m building my own exhaust sistem and i,m  not sure what kind of tube balance to use.
I have seen a nice universal X sistem from summit,but,
Why they say it is  only for off- road use?

About the H pipe is the sistem i have seen it is  used on kits such as Flowmaster and TTI..

What kind of adaventages has the X sistesm over the H?

[71440se]

from what i understand.  the h or crossover tube will only balance the exhaust pulses and maybe  improve tone.  the x type have been dyno proven to  give more hp. i believe it is from   a scavenging effect on the gases . if it was me i would go with the x type.

[golden73]

x pipe fo' sho'

[Johnny SixPack]

from what i understand.  the h or crossover tube will only balance the exhaust pulses and maybe  improve tone.  the x type have been dyno proven to  give more hp. i believe it is from   a scavenging effect on the gases . if it was me i would go with the x type.

Haven't had any real world experience with it yet, but went with the X-pipe option on my 3" TTI exhaust for my 496 stroker.

Everything I've read and also heard from members of the board make it a near no brainer.

[firefighter3931]

x-pipe for sure....better scavenging and increased tq and hp. As Johnny says...it's a no brainer 

Ron

[COKE]

Hi!
Thanks for the all the replies!

I would like to try it with one of these kits:
http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?Ntt=EXHAUST+x&searchinresults=false&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&N=115&target=egnsearch.asp&x=24&y=9

But,Why they say it is only for off-road use?

[Blown70]

Hi!
Thanks for the all the replies!

I would like to try it with one of these kits:
http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?Ntt=EXHAUST+x&searchinresults=false&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&N=115&target=egnsearch.asp&x=24&y=9

But,Why they say it is only for off-road use?

Ever hear of emission laws?  That way then can sell them.  With that little fine print.

Tom

[tecmopar]

Rule of thumb is that an H-pipe kicks up torque and an X-pipe for HP. In a big car-big motor, I like to bring up the TQ, good luck.

[Ghoste]

In many areas, emission laws do not permit the modification of any emission related equipment even if it does not alter (or improves) exhaust emissions.  Since the X pipe would be installed in your exhaust system, it would therefore be illegal in these areas if your vehicle didn't come with it.  Less of an issue on our cars, but if you were putting one on a late model 5.0 Mustang, well, the lawmakers take a dim view of that.

[firefighter3931]

Rule of thumb is that an H-pipe kicks up torque and an X-pipe for HP. In a big car-big motor, I like to bring up the TQ, good luck.

An x-pipe will usually show an increase in torque vs an h-pipe. 

I really don't see an x-pipe altering the emissions significantly. High emissions is a product of poor engine tuning : rich mixture, timing etc...


Ron

[COKE]

No  emission laws  for  the old cars here in Spain...

[Ghoste]

Hey Ron, I don't think it's the actual measured effect it has on emissions, it's the physical modification of an emission control device that po's the "man".  Not likely to be an issue on an old Charger in most states but I bet it could be in some (California??).
Not likely to ever get someone in trouble but I'd still bet it's the reason for the disclaimer.

[Mike DC]

As far as I know, the X-pipe is better than the H-pipe in every way you measure it.

Both will also reduce the badass "bite" in the exhuast sound a little bit, though.  The highest-flowing exhaust is not always the most badass-sounding one.  I even remember reading somewhere than on one of the modern special edition Camaros, GM actually eliminated the crossover pipe to improve the muscular sound a bit over the standard Camaros.

.

[is_it_EVER_done?]

Reality is that you will probably see very little, if any difference between the two. Far to often, the "latest and greatest thing" is neither one.

This has been experimented with for as long as I can remember (I'm old), and it always goes back and forth. I have witnessed two different chassis dyno tests of adding an X in place of an H, and to say that the difference was "non existant to negligible" would be an understatement. I'm sure that magazine tests have "proven" that an X will produce space shuttle type power, but I would look to see if the X manufacturer is an advertiser.

The only thing I personally have seen (actually heard) to be any real difference is the exhaust note. I personally much prefer the sound of an H as the X tends to give it a little more rice sound. Whichever is your preference is what I believe should be your deciding factor. That and whichever is cheaper.

In full race situations, open headers, or individual pipes produce the most power (no crossover at all). In venues where full exhaust is mandated (like NASCAR), the X will produce more power, but only in the sub 1% range, and only at high RPM (they also have $10,000 exhaust systems).

Again, go with whatever sounds best to you. I know several people that HAD to have an X as it was "state of the art", and eventually changed out to an H or none, just for the sound. --- Look around at the next swap meet your at. You will notice several "cut out" X systems for sale. That doesn't mean there bad, or worse than an H system, just not the "miracle" that they are advertised to be, with the downside of sound that most don't prefer.

[firefighter3931]

MM did an xpipe test a few years back on the FAST challenger and it picked up some nice power on the chassis dyno. There's a guy on Moparts who runs a 496 in his 69 charger with a DR. Gas x-pipe and he told me it et's better with the closed exhaust than it does on open headers. This a dyno proven combo that makes 630hp and runs mid 10's at 3900 lbs. A hotter motor will most likely show a greater improvement over a near stock engine...that's a given. I've heard an x-pipe with closed exhaust and it's pretty hardcore. I've got a nice short vid of a 10 second GTX launching with one if anyones interested in hearing what it sounds like. Lemme know if someone can host it and i'll mail it off.

Ron

[Johnny SixPack]

MM did an xpipe test a few years back on the FAST challenger and it picked up some nice power on the chassis dyno. There's a guy on Moparts who runs a 496 in his 69 charger with a DR. Gas x-pipe and he told me it et's better with the closed exhaust than it does on open headers. This a dyno proven combo that makes 630hp and runs mid 10's at 3900 lbs. A hotter motor will most likely show a greater improvement over a near stock engine...that's a given. I've heard an x-pipe with closed exhaust and it's pretty hardcore. I've got a nice short vid of a 10 second GTX launching with one if anyones interested in hearing what it sounds like. Lemme know if someone can host it and i'll mail it off.

Ron

Ron, mail it to me and I can host it.

johnnytoxin@NOSPAMmsn.com (just remove the NOSPAM first  )

[firefighter3931]

Johnny, you've got incoming  There's 2 vids : burnout and launch. 

Ron

[Blown70]

Johnny, you've got incoming  There's 2 vids : burnout and launch. 

Ron

OHHH LETS HEAR THEM

[Johnny SixPack]

I received the vids, Ron, but for some reason every time I try and upload them to my FotoTime account it freezes.

I tried converting the vids to AVI and also Mpeg forms, but no love.

It could just be FotoTime glitching, so I'll keep trying.

Another option is trying one of the car vid sites and just linking from there once it's approved.

[kamkuda]

If you wish I can host them for you.

[Johnny SixPack]

If you wish I can host them for you.

Kam, PM me your email and I can forward the vids on to you.

Do they need to be in a certain format?

[kamkuda]

I got the first one, here it is... 

http://208.63.61.10/imagebank/Rob/Fran1.mpg

Warning, it is a large file

[kamkuda]

I got the second file,  icon_smile_shy

http://208.63.61.10/imagebank/Rob/Fran2.mpg     

[kamkuda]

   
   

Quote from: is_it_EVER_done? on February 24, 2006, 05:01:29 PM
I personally much prefer the sound of an H as the X tends to give it a little more rice sound. Whichever is your preference is what I believe should be your deciding factor. That and whichever is cheaper.

FYI, here is my car with an X pipe (cold winter day).  I don't think it sounds too rice...
I have straight exhaust before and it was louder and did not feel as strong

http://208.63.61.10/imagebank/Rob/spring-rev.AVI

[Johnny SixPack]

Kickash!

Thanks for hostin' 'em, Rob!

And I always liked the sound of your car too.

[firefighter3931]

Kam to the rescue  Thanks for hosting them buddy....you da man ! 

Ron


Ps. Now, did someone say sumthin 'bout rice 

[COKE]

From the Flowmaster page:

"Do I need to install an "H" pipe to my dual exhaust?
Flowmaster strongly recommends using an "H" pipe, commonly known as a "balance tube" on all "true dual" exhaust systems. An "H" pipe equalizes the pressures between both banks of the engine giving a broader and flatter torque curve throughout the rpm range. It also eliminates "back-rap" common on deceleration, and creates a deeper mellower tone both inside and outside of the vehicle. "

"Is an "X" pipe better than and "H" pipe?
Over the years, Flowmaster's testing of all types of crossovers, including "X pipes", has revealed no substantial benefits over a properly installed "H" pipe on street driven applications. However, in race applications with small cubic inch engines and /or restricted (small bore) carburetors, will respond well to the addition of X pipes, tri-y styled collectors and/or properly designed single exhaust systems. "

[Ghoste]

There are probably as many tests that say it's better as there are saying no "significant" benefit.  Since there are none that say the X is worse than the H, I'm willing to put it on and take the chance that the not significant benefit can help in the total scheme.
One more grain of sand in the bottle, as it were.

[kamkuda]

Here is a mustang article suppoerting the x pipe theory.
http://www.mustang50magazine.com/techarticles/17880/index.html