The effects of E10 gasoline....

[rarefish]

Well I took the Charger out for the first drive of the year yesterday and when I went fill the tank I noticed this rust forming along the top of the inside of the filler neck.   I'm assuming that this is the results of the 10% ethanol that is most fuels today. I'm now really worried about what I can't see going on. I thinking about trying the Lucas Ethanol Fuel Conditioner, but I wonder if these additives really make a difference.

[JB400]

Alcohol does contain water and draws water.  I was told to use the Sea Foam stuff in a white and red can.

[Back N Black]

I think is just rust from a 40 year old filler neck??

[GPULLER]

I think is just rust from a 40 year old filler neck??

[resq302]

Ive used the fuel system treatment with phenominal results.  No more hard starts, no more rough idle.  This now goes in every tank of 93 octane I fill up with!  http://mystarbrite.com/startron/

It is also supposed to remove the ethanol from the fuel too which will eliminate the phase separation problem that is inherent to todays crappy fuel.   

[GPULLER]

It is also supposed to remove the ethanol from the fuel too which will eliminate the phase separation problem that is inherent to todays crappy fuel.   

Remove the ethanol from E10??

[Tilar]

Ethanol / E10 fuels increase the amounts of water and sludge in your fuel tank.
Star Tron breaks down this excess water and sludge to sub-micron size allowing it to be safely burned away during normal engine operation.
Therefore Star Tron prevents phase separation and fuel gelling, eliminating ethanol fuel problems.

Interesting. 

[brigond]

That sounds great , ill have to research it. I read that the new fuels wreak havoc on old rubber fuel lines. Also more susceptible  to vapor lock. It's less fuel efficient too. I changed all the rubber lines from carb to fuel pump as well as the ones off of the fuel tank. I used fuel injection line . It's supposed to be less permeable , and stands up to the newer ,harsher fuels. The best lines are supposed to be teflon ,. I didn't use them because I didn't want to mess with special fittings.

When I use my commuter car , I notice: a 3 to 5 mile per gallon  difference from winter to summer . I believe they change the fuel recipe . I don't think the ethanol will harm metal fuel lines.

[ws23rt]

My understanding about alcohol and gas is.  That water and gas don't mix- We can see this as in small planes part of preflight checks (drain water from bottom of tank). We know that alcohol and water do mix. (In fact I just did a bit of that). And we know that alcohol and gas do mix. So with alcohol in the gas water will mix with both in effect making the water pass through the engine and therefore removing water/condensate from the tank.
As far as the mix affecting rubber lines, seals and the like. That is a separate but important issue. If we had a choice at the pump we could buy what we need for our engines. I live in Oregon and and here they want to protect me from myself so I can not buy the fuel I need for my engines.

[ws23rt]

That sounds great , ill have to research it. I read that the new fuels wreak havoc on old rubber fuel lines. Also more susceptible  to vapor lock. It's less fuel efficient too. I changed all the rubber lines from carb to fuel pump as well as the ones off of the fuel tank. I used fuel injection line . It's supposed to be less permeable , and stands up to the newer ,harsher fuels. The best lines are supposed to be teflon ,. I didn't use them because I didn't want to mess with special fittings.

When I use my commuter car , I notice: a 3 to 5 mile per gallon  difference from winter to summer . I believe they change the fuel recipe . I don't think the ethanol will harm metal fuel lines.

Your measure of different miles per gallon from winter to summer is related directly to the amount of alcohol in the gas. A volume measure of alcohol has less energy available that an equal volume of gas. More alcohol= fewer miles per gal. A much more important measure is $ per mile.

[brigond]

Yup,  I drive 80 miles one way to work and have been watching the mpg for years. The whole thing is ridiculous . It affects old cars and new cars in negative ways. You pay more at the pump  and  It also brings up the food prices at the supermarket. Let me stop here before I go off topic get  political. ....

[greymag]

It also kills the rubber bladder in older fuel pumps

[resq302]

That sounds great , ill have to research it. I read that the new fuels wreak havoc on old rubber fuel lines. Also more susceptible  to vapor lock. It's less fuel efficient too. I changed all the rubber lines from carb to fuel pump as well as the ones off of the fuel tank. I used fuel injection line . It's supposed to be less permeable , and stands up to the newer ,harsher fuels. The best lines are supposed to be teflon ,. I didn't use them because I didn't want to mess with special fittings.

When I use my commuter car , I notice: a 3 to 5 mile per gallon  difference from winter to summer . I believe they change the fuel recipe . I don't think the ethanol will harm metal fuel lines.

I agree.  I, too, noticed a dip in my mpg in my truck.  I used to be able to get 14-15 combined city/highway and was getting like 12-13 mpg, 14ish on a good trip!

And yes, ethanol WILL hurt the metal lines due to it absorbing water and starting to rust the lines from the inside out.  When will the EPA wake up and realize that we are going through MORE fuel due to getting worse MPG and less power which in the long run will cause more pollutants in the air!  Maybe it is one big conspiracy that the government has with the farmers to sell and produce more corn in order to jack the price up on everything else.   

[PocketThunder]

Yup,  I drive 80 miles one way to work and have been watching the mpg for years. The whole thing is ridiculous . It affects old cars and new cars in negative ways. You pay more at the pump  and  It also brings up the food prices at the supermarket. Let me stop here before I go off topic get  political. ....

80 miles?..??  Dude, move closer to work.   

[Paul G]

My company truck, 2012 F250, can take e85. I ran a few tanks of that swill through it. My mpg on 87 e10 gas is 13 mpg . On e85 it got 8mpg. Not cost efective to run e85.

[GPULLER]

I replaced the Carter fuel pump on my car this winter.  Here is some pics of the pump diaphragm and a copy of the invoice.  This pump has pumped ethanol fuel its whole life.  How long is a pump supposed to last?  I figure I got 24 years out of this one, things can't last forever.





Have a hard time believing that ethanol fuel is that hard on fuel systems.  I have 7 vehicles that run on E10, from 60 yr old John Deere tractors to Weed Eater trimmers.  Have to say that ethanol has no ill effects on their performance.  They get parked in the winter with no stabilizer in the fuel and in the spring they all fire and run just fine.
American farmers produce more than enough corn to support ethanol production and feed the world.  There are other sources of ethanol but none that are as practical and plentiful as corn.  Ethanol production provides jobs, according to the Renewable Fuels Association, american ethanol production helped create 87,292 direct jobs. The ethanol industry helped sustain 383,261 total jobs across the US.

[GPULLER]

I have an '07 Durango that is E85 compatible.  I can say that the more you run E85 or regular gas the mileage will get better.  Switching from one tank of E85 back to regular gas is not a fair comparison.

[TwistedShifter]

I found out for the first time the affects of e10 on my '73 Charger last week. I used Arco gas during a recent refuel and I don't think they change the water traps too often. Well, one broken windshield later, , I will use Chevron gas since it runs way better and I won't have to worry about crap gas.

[resq302]

Ok, please enlighten me as to how a broken windshield has to do with running E10 or higher ethanol content?

[brigond]

My Dodge grand Caravan can use E-85 . It has special parts made with better materials that can withstand the (harsh ) affects of the E 85. Special parts equals more cost to buy the vehicles. I don't think you can get it anymore, at least I haven't seen any around here. If it was so great I think there would be a lot more  E 85 vehicles around . My van is a 2002.

[brigond]

Yup,  I drive 80 miles one way to work and have been watching the mpg for years. The whole thing is ridiculous . It affects old cars and new cars in negative ways. You pay more at the pump  and  It also brings up the food prices at the supermarket. Let me stop here before I go off topic get  political. ....

80 miles?..??  Dude, move closer to work.   

You do what you have to do to make things the best for the family.

[GPULLER]

My Dodge grand Caravan can use E-85 . It has special parts made with better materials that can withstand the (harsh ) affects of the E 85. Special parts equals more cost to buy the vehicles. I don't think you can get it anymore, at least I haven't seen any around here. If it was so great I think there would be a lot more  E 85 vehicles around . My van is a 2002.

Chevy offers 32 2013 E85 models
Ford has 26
Dodge has 8
Think there are plenty around.

[brigond]

Maybe so , Those are just a handful of  so many cars on the road today. E 85  equipped vehicles have been around at least since 2002. I don't think those folks realize that they likely paid more for an e85 equipped vehicle , and its something they will probably never use.  I don't see where I can even purchase e 85.

[ws23rt]

I replaced the Carter fuel pump on my car this winter.  Here is some pics of the pump diaphragm and a copy of the invoice.  This pump has pumped ethanol fuel its whole life.  How long is a pump supposed to last?  I figure I got 24 years out of this one, things can't last forever.





Have a hard time believing that ethanol fuel is that hard on fuel systems.  I have 7 vehicles that run on E10, from 60 yr old John Deere tractors to Weed Eater trimmers.  Have to say that ethanol has no ill effects on their performance.  They get parked in the winter with no stabilizer in the fuel and in the spring they all fire and run just fine.
American farmers produce more than enough corn to support ethanol production and feed the world.  There are other sources of ethanol but none that are as practical and plentiful as corn.  Ethanol production provides jobs, according to the Renewable Fuels Association, american ethanol production helped create 87,292 direct jobs. The ethanol industry helped sustain 383,261 total jobs across the US.

 I always liked thinking about perpetual motion machines. I met a guy years ago that told me he had a motor that ran a generator that made electricity that ran the motor. So I said does it work? He said yes but no because of a few things he still needs to do.
 Lets say we have a 10000gal tank of ethanol. This was used to run farm equipment, Trans port (trucking, rail etc), fuel needs for storage and handling, The plant that ferments the corn takes a very large amount of energy and water processing. If all of this was powered by the 10000gal tank of ethanol. (many misc not mentioned). Now the product goes into an empty 10000 tank. This tank would not get very close to full before the first tank was empty. This is why our gov. has to pay the difference. If they did not every ethanol plant would close down.
I suppose this may seem like a political topic but it is not ment to be. Just a reminder that there is no free lunch.

[Blusmbl]

Your measure of different miles per gallon from winter to summer is related directly to the amount of alcohol in the gas. A volume measure of alcohol has less energy available that an equal volume of gas. More alcohol= fewer miles per gal. A much more important measure is $ per mile.

You lose about 5% in fuel economy from E0 to E10.  Varying weather conditions can change your fuel economy far more than 5%.