No repro 2nd-gen grilles, ever?

[hatersaurusrex]

I agree there will be a general decline, but I think it will culminate in the preservation of cars already built/rebuilt being passed to a new but smaller enthusiast crowd, and all these 'I'll restore it someday' parts cars finally rotting into the ground and being picked apart once the owner finally realizes it's unrestorable.      The younger generation does have an interest in these cars and retro cars in general - there's a reason there are a dozen different cars out there based on 50 year old designs, people want that classic retro look but can only afford one car - so they split the difference and get a new Challenger instead of that 71 AAR Cuda they really want.   

Love or hate the General Lee, but the DOH crowd probably is what will keep 2nd gens afloat in the next couple decades.    I've wanted a 2nd gen since I was a kid, but had to wait until I was in my 30's to really afford it.   I saved a 68 383 car from rust-filled doom and am willing to put twice as much into it as I'll ever see out of it because I love these cars, and the GL is what started that love.   I grew up in a family with Ford and Chevy guys who are all 15+ years older than me, and I stuck to my love of the 'Ugly Mopars' even while they were sporting Chevelles, Camaros, Corvettes, and Mustangs.    My love of the GL branched off and now I love almost all Mopars from the classic era, and find all but a few Pontiacs and Fords to be boring and not worth putting that kind of coin into.   Anybody can plunk down 5K on a driver quality Mustang, but it takes a special kind of masochist to pull a rusted base car home on a trailer and spend 30K just getting it into driver shape.   

I have a feeling there are tons of guys a few years older or younger than me who loved DOH and still plan on getting a 2nd gen - but may not get there financially until they start pushing middle age and the kids leave home - then they finally have the money to do it right.  For me,  it went from being a childhood fantasy, to a dream, to a tangible reality.   There will be others in my age bracket who carry on the tradition on the Mopar side as these cars get rarer - no offense but I'm probably more on the low side of the average age group for this hobby.     My brother doing the resto is 15 years older than me, and his Chevelle was the first muscle car I ever rode in when I was very little (I thought it was cool he had Thrush glasspacks with Woody Woodpecker on them and used to crawl under the car to look at them).   Now we're working on a resto project together.   I could get a LOT more car for the 40 or 50K I'll wind up putting into this one, or a nice RV, boat, or any number of things - but I want my 68 I've been promising myself since I was 5.

What will the hobby look like in 20 years as guys like me kick the kids out of the house and start to spend money on hobbies?   Well I hope it looks like it does now, but with new people around.   To answer the OP's question though - I think the jig is up.   There would have to be significant demand for those parts to justify the price - as many of you have pointed out - and if the DOH crowd starts pullling cars out of back yards over the next few years and restoring them that demand might get there.   The problem - what's another 10 years going to do to those cars?     Will the other parts manufacturers have moved on by then, rendering the cars restorable only by cannibalization?   Maybe.    If I were a parts maker I woudln't invest heavily unless the demand were already there though.

[Cooter]

Why is everyone thinking they would be $2k plus ?

If amd sells full 1/4's for $700 I'd think if they did repop them the price would be 1k or less. Dunno

You got any idea what tooling costs cost?
Lemme put it this way....
We (The club) tried to get a VERY RARE right side exhaust manifold reproduced. We even got all the way to having four (One cracked during machining due to an 'ingnant' machinist), and after all was said and done, it costs us over $15K just to have FIVE GOOD MANIFOLDS poured.

I've seen these manifolds in original form, SELL for over $3K EACH!!
We tried to sell the TWO we had on hand to test the waters... BRAND NEW CASTING WITH NO PITS, for $2000.00 Each and everybody wanted to "Wait till prices come down" before they bought. Really? We couldn't sell a BRAND NEW version that was all but perfect for $1000 less than an original that is rusted, pitted, cracked, ears missing, etc.??

Answer: Yes, we still have one, and gave up. Now we each (Four guys) have one to hang on our walls...When someone goes through the VERY expensive process of everybody with the "good tools" that want to "Get theirs", and then everybody does what they did to 'Bobfist' with his repro grilles, it ain;t worth the trouble. Besides, I isn't that Cuda grille a one piece design? The Charger has THREE (3) different pieces. That means three (3) different tooling costs. Not to mention the 1970 Will be a totally different SET of tooling costs. It's different when parts have to move.

Yes, AMD just might take on this as a project, but the Number one mistake I see people make is "I'll wait until the price comes down" before they buy...Well, usually, by that time, it is a limited run and it becomes discontinued due to lack of buying demand. Things don't have to be a feeding frenzy, but people need to "show their support" by BUYING the repops, or the lack of may just get the project cancelled. I offer the first run of Vector wheels for example. Everybody wanted and wanted them. AR repopped them. Not too many actually stepped up and bought a set. Now, look at what the originals are bringing bent, cracked, drilled, etc.

[Cooter]

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,93765.0.html

[Baldwinvette77]

So i guess the short answer is "Don't hold your breath"   I for one may just scab something together with left over sheet metal and my neighbours screen door  

[Cooter]

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,82237.0.html


Bobfist Did one helluva job on this grille. I only wish I could buy a BUNCH of them from him to keep demand up, but alas, I'm in bout the same boat as everybody else. This still does NOT take away from the quality of this repro.

Just be thankful you guys don't mess around with $700/set of two oval Air cleaners for the 1958-62 Chryslers. Yes, I bought a set reluctantly.
WTF HERE would pay that for an aircleaner that didn't say something like "Hemi", "Six PAck", "Air GRabber" etc.?

[Baldwinvette77]

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,82237.0.html

Ooooo, Well hello there  , wish i had 1200 to kill though  , plus i'd still to to find the outer sections and headlight doors used

[Cooter]

I tried like hell to sell a Damn nice 1969 Charger Grille here for over a year for $1500.00 COMPLETE. No takers. Well, I finally swapped it for a 1970 Challenger R/T Grille.

[Baldwinvette77]

I tried like hell to sell a Damn nice 1969 Charger Grille here for over a year for $1500.00 COMPLETE. No takers. Well, I finally swapped it for a 1970 Challenger R/T Grille.

I met a guy a little up north from my place, has about 15 different 68-70 grilles, he wants 900$ for a beat up (but not cracked) 69 and it goes up from there, he might have some junk that i can throw together to make one  .. i hope

[charger_fan_4ever]

Why is everyone thinking they would be $2k plus ?

If amd sells full 1/4's for $700 I'd think if they did repop them the price would be 1k or less. Dunno

You got any idea what tooling costs cost?
Lemme put it this way....
We (The club) tried to get a VERY RARE right side exhaust manifold reproduced. We even got all the way to having four (One cracked during machining due to an 'ingnant' machinist), and after all was said and done, it costs us over $15K just to have FIVE GOOD MANIFOLDS poured.

I've seen these manifolds in original form, SELL for over $3K EACH!!
We tried to sell the TWO we had on hand to test the waters... BRAND NEW CASTING WITH NO PITS, for $2000.00 Each and everybody wanted to "Wait till prices come down" before they bought. Really? We couldn't sell a BRAND NEW version that was all but perfect for $1000 less than an original that is rusted, pitted, cracked, ears missing, etc.??

Answer: Yes, we still have one, and gave up. Now we each (Four guys) have one to hang on our walls...When someone goes through the VERY expensive process of everybody with the "good tools" that want to "Get theirs", and then everybody does what they did to 'Bobfist' with his repro grilles, it ain;t worth the trouble. Besides, I isn't that Cuda grille a one piece design? The Charger has THREE (3) different pieces. That means three (3) different tooling costs. Not to mention the 1970 Will be a totally different SET of tooling costs. It's different when parts have to move.

Yes, AMD just might take on this as a project, but the Number one mistake I see people make is "I'll wait until the price comes down" before they buy...Well, usually, by that time, it is a limited run and it becomes discontinued due to lack of buying demand. Things don't have to be a feeding frenzy, but people need to "show their support" by BUYING the repops, or the lack of may just get the project cancelled. I offer the first run of Vector wheels for example. Everybody wanted and wanted them. AR repopped them. Not too many actually stepped up and bought a set. Now, look at what the originals are bringing bent, cracked, drilled, etc.

I know tooling is expensive, but you have to compare apples to apples.Plastic vs metal. If someone like AMD got into it its just a drop in the bucket and they would make more than 5

Guys can put on a set of headers for $300 vs the $2k for 1 manifold. Most are cheap when restoring a car. A grille well there is no other options. its pay up or drive a car with no grille.

I agree with you people probably would not step up even at $1k to buy one.

[Mike DC]

  

So i guess the short answer is "Don't hold your breath"   I for one may just scab something together with left over sheet metal and my neighbours screen door

I met a guy a little up north from my place, has about 15 different 68-70 grilles, he wants 900$ for a beat up (but not cracked) 69 and it goes up from there, he might have some junk that i can throw together to make one   .. i hope

I brought this up to somebody on another thread  - there is an existing fiberglass copy of the grille on the market.  Looks kinda crappy and has the openings blocked off flat.  You could buy one of those, cut the openings back out, and recreate the slats over the opening with some other generic material.  It wouldn't be very pretty up close, but it would cheaply get the car back on the road while you put together a decent 45yo grille.

[Baldwinvette77]

you mean these? 

[Mike DC]

Yeah that's what I was thinking.  

They used fake grilles on some stunt cars in the 2005 "Dukes" movie.  Probably those by the look of them.    



As for the slatted areas, you could stick in some grating of some kind and call it good.  


My friend got a couple of these box fans from Walmart the other day for his new house, and I remember looking at them thinking the white plastic grating on both sides looked Charger-ish.  He said they were like $15.  Two of them would probably be more than enough to cover a whole grille & headlight doors.  

The shaping is not nearly close enough to be using them as raw material to patch up original grilles.  The rectangular holes are too small, etc.  But as a standalone material it would probably look good from a few yards away.
 

[Baldwinvette77]

No ones gonna notice when it flashes by at 120  Thanks for the idea 

[toocheaptosmoke]

Currently developing a prototype '70 grille made solely from junk refrigerator parts. 

[Baldwinvette77]

GENIUS!!!! i have some old screen door mesh in my garage i might use for mine, AND BLACK SABBATH!!!!!!!! 

[Old Moparz]

I've done some cheesey things to cars but I can't see myself cutting up a wallymart box fan to make a grille.   


But I do like the way you're thinking. 

[Cooter]

Careful Gentlemen, this is getting way too close to the "Hacked" thread's stuff here. I know it's all about enginuity and doing things on the cheap, however.....

[Baldwinvette77]

Careful Gentlemen, this is getting way too close to the "Hacked" thread's stuff here. I know it's all about enginuity and doing things on the cheap, however.....

Hacked? You mean custom 

[Cooter]

Hacked? You mean custom 

[JB400]

Just to throw this out there, how about using a 70 RR grill to fix our grills?  I don't know about height wise, but they are a similar pattern.  I haven't done a side by side comparison except from pix.

[Mike DC]

Just to throw this out there, how about using a 70 RR grill to fix our grills?  I don't know about height wise, but they are a similar pattern.  I haven't done a side by side comparison except from pix.

It might work but I don't think it's a practical option unless those RR grille parts could be sourced pretty cheaply.  If the donor plastic is still going to cost you $100+ then I think you would be better off just sinking that money into buying a more intact Charger grille.  

The same argument could be made for spending money on a fiberglass/fake grille.  It may not be worth the investment if the "cheap" fiberglass grille still costs $350.   But not everyone has a busted Charger grille "core" to repair even if they had the donor plastic.  

And for me personally, just the idea of driving around with $1500 worth of fragile antique plastic that will never be reproduced on the leading edge of my car .  . . that costs me some peace-of-mind.

Careful Gentlemen, this is getting way too close to the "Hacked" thread's stuff here. I know it's all about enginuity and doing things on the cheap, however.....

"Hacking" would be taking a decent existing Charger grille and chopping it up because you like it better looking wrong or you want to save $100.

Taking no original parts, and trying to copy a (bolt-on) part that is getting impractically expensive, but required to drive the car . . . not the same thing IMHO.  I view it as a cheaper non-permanent way to "fix" a stock part rather than an attempt to modify the car.  

 

[duanesterrr]

I agree with the people that point to the benefits of 3D printing.  Yea, right now its costly.  With that being said, how long until kinkos has a 3D printer that you can walk in with a thumb drive and they make whatever you want?  Any plastic piece could be made.  It would be profitable for them due to the large amount of customers.  I wouldn't be one bit suprised if the grilles made are damn near better in every way over the originals.

[PocketThunder]

 

[Old Moparz]

Besides, I isn't that Cuda grille a one piece design? The Charger has THREE (3) different pieces. That means three (3) different tooling costs. Not to mention the 1970 Will be a totally different SET of tooling costs.

True, it's 3 pieces, but so is the 1970 Road Runner grille & it's $494.99 including the stainless trim. I understand your point about the tooling cost & three different year designs, but the '70 RR is a one year only part. At least with the Chargers the '68 & the '69 would share the head light doors. The trim is already out there.

[stripedelete]

Is it possible someone dug up the original mold for 1970 Road Runner?

Or

What are the production numbers vs.  any one year of 2nd gen?