No repro 2nd-gen grilles, ever?

[Mike DC]

                            
                         
Will these things ever get made?  I'm starting to wonder.  


It's 2013 and we're no closer to them than we were 10 years ago.  But during that time these cars rode a wave of bubbled-up value.  It was generational timing + an artificial housing/economic bubble put extra cash in everyone's pocket.  It was enough to cause AMD to reproduce practically the entire unibody in METAL, and good thick metal at that.  But still no plastic grilles in sight.  

There was the Premier Plastics debacle a few years ago.  But even if they had been more honest and stayed in business for a while, they seemed to be making these things one item at a time by hand.  I don't think PP would ever have given us a decent size production run with metal tooling.



Demand?  

It's always been there.  The General Lee's pushbar was reshaped 30 years ago to protect the grilles better because the TV filming crew already had trouble finding good plastic back then.  

In 2005 it seems like these grilles weren't much cheaper than they are now.  (IMHO they are certainly in a similar range if you factor inflation in.)  Whatever extra demand has been created since then by the dwindling supply is probably just counter-acting the effect of the falling economy & market for these cars.  

Sooner or later the number of people doing a major "restoration" (read: recreation) on their old 2nd-gen body shell is going to pass a peak and probably never be that high again.  Even if AMD makes more bodies I don't think the demand will be there forever with generational changes.  (Will young car guys continue to think Chargers are cool for the next few decades?  Yes.  But how many of them will spend north of $35,000 to get one?  I dunno.  I still think 1957 Chevys are cool too, but I'm not dumping $35,000 into one.)

Are we past the high point of Charger demand/restorations already?    



If these grilles still haven't been reproduced by now - will they ever be?  
             

[73rallye440magnum]

I'm looking forward to exploiting the decreased interest in muscle Mopars in a decade or two. Very very few individuals my age (25) have ANY interest in an old mechanical beast. By comparison to newer vehicles they handle poorly, are expensive to service and maintain, noisy and uncomfortable, obsolete parts, and suck gas. 

Technological advances may persuade a repro grille.

[charger_fan_4ever]

                           
                         
Are we past the high point of Charger demand/restorations already?    
             

Sadly I think we are. Like the 55-57 crowd they went over the peak 10 years ago.

I'm 33 and when i go to shows I'm one of the younger guys there. A few teens that hang in the new car section. Pretty well all the owners of the musclecars are atleast 50+.

I don't think its so much the price tag that is stopping the younger crowd from getting into muscle cars. Kids around here (parents) dump $15-20k into honda's. I don't think $$ is the issue. I just don't get it.

Only ones buying have their pockets full of $$ and know its cheaper to buy a turn key car than a project. Projects will keep getting kicked around owner to owner never finished IMO.

[Chatt69chgr]

Well, Classic Industries has repoped the 71 Cuda grill.  I have a feeling that they will offer the 2nd gen Charger grill before too long.  The demand is surely there.   

[AKcharger]

I'm looking forward to exploiting the decreased interest in muscle Mopars in a decade or two. Very very few individuals my age (25) have ANY interest in an old mechanical beast.

I'd actually argue the opposite. I consistently have younger people and teenage kids always ask me about my cars and there's a reason...Pop culture is keeping muscle cars alive. Most EVERY action adventure movie has a muscle car somewhere in the plot or in a cameo and they show up in suprising numbers in music videos.

That is in stark contrast to pre-60's cars highlighted in movies...with the exception of American Grafitti and Christine, it never happened

Also there is the complexity. If one of our car is dead we have...what a carburator and 25 seperate wires to worry about? How many kids today are going to break out a multi-meter and start shooting HUNDREDS of wires, tens of relays and resistors and multiple computers to get a car running?

While we aint going to get rich, Our cars will remain desireable for many years to come  

P.S. I thought they were making '69 Grilles?

[Old Moparz]

Well, Classic Industries has repoped the 71 Cuda grill.  I have a feeling that they will offer the 2nd gen Charger grill before too long.  The demand is surely there.   

That is exactly what I was thinking. Also look at Dynacorn, who for years said they would never build a complete body for Mopar & ended up doing just that.

Maybe it's just a matter of parts companies & people feeling more confident in the economy before they spend money on hobby cars. Other than a few necessities like a gas tank & fuel lines to replace the leaky one & a few small dollar items, I have avoided any expensive purchases on my cars for several years now. My job appears stable & has been but my wife lost hers & now works 3 part time jobs. No way I'd consider a $1000 repro grille if I needed one.

[elanmars]

I'm looking forward to exploiting the decreased interest in muscle Mopars in a decade or two. Very very few individuals my age (25) have ANY interest in an old mechanical beast.

I'd actually argue the opposite. I consistently have younger people and teenage kids always ask me about my cars and there's a reason...Pop culture is keeping muscle cars alive. Most EVERY action adventure movie has a muscle car somewhere in the plot or in a cameo and they show up in suprising numbers in music videos.

That is in stark contrast to pre-60's cars highlighted in movies...with the exception of American Grafitti and Christine, it never happened

Also there is the complexity. If one of our car is dead we have...what a carburator and 25 seperate wires to worry about? How many kids today are going to break out a multi-meter and start shooting HUNDREDS of wires, tens of relays and resistors and multiple computers to get a car running?

While we aint going to get rich, Our cars will remain desireable for many years to come  

P.S. I thought they were making '69 Grilles?

I always find it humorous in action movies, heroes will usually have a 60's/70's muscle car, top of the line (ss, r/t, etc) and proceed to bash the crap out of it/not treat it right......

[Cooter]

See, the thing with the young guns today and the Imports/Fox body Mustangs, is like my boss said one time. "I like to build a car that doens't need at least 10 years of bodywork before I can get to the engine. That junk you work on is fine for you if your a glutten for punishment, but I just ain't into wasting that much effort/time on a car only to have it sell for half what you got in it"...

I believe he's correct. Most Everybody today is into Instant gratification. They are Great out the gate when they first purchase said rusty old car, but once the reallity of the amount of time/work/money sets in, they would rather get out of it, build a Mustang, and be cruising in 2 months.

Thing is with the grilles. A Big company will all but have to pop out 2500 A run in order to sell the repop grilles at what the BUYING public (READ: NOt just a few rich guys who can afford a damn $3000.00 grille), at a reasonable price, will pay for it. I mean, look what poor old "Bobfist" went through with the "DAMN! That's alotta coin for a piece of plastic!!" when he repopped his EXCELLENT GRILLES.

No, until the Repop grilles come down around say $1000-$1500 COMPLETE, Chrome trim, everything, I fear the demands is there sure, but is the money to back it all up?

[Baldwinvette77]

yeah i have to side with cooter, even if they do make them, i would rather hunt down a used one, especially since their value will drop when new ones are made, im guessing they will be 2000$+ for a new one. and at that point a used one may drop to 500$ if not less 

[Mike DC]

See, the thing with the young guns today and the Imports/Fox body Mustangs, is like my boss said one time. "I like to build a car that doens't need at least 10 years of bodywork before I can get to the engine. That junk you work on is fiune for you if your a glutten for punishment, but I just ain't into wasting that much effort/time on a car opnly to have it sell for half what you got in it"...

I believe he's correct. Most Everybody today is into Instant gratification. They are Great out the gate when they first purchase said rusty old car, but once the reallity of the amount of time/work/money sets in, they would rather get out of it, build a Mustang, and be cruising in 2 months.

I totally agree about the work that goes into the cars.  Muscle cars may end up costing the same as an import when all is said and done, but the import is a functioning car that the kid spends his time & money making fast.  A muscle car is a fast car that he would spend his time & money making functional.  The latter is a helluva lot less practical (not to mention enjoyable) for the first 90% of the project. 

As for instant gratification these days:   I doubt many of the original hot rodders in the 1940s/50s would have spent 4-8 years and the price of a decent 5yo Corvette on their deuce coupe, all before it became something usable at all.  Same for the original generation of muscle car guys from the 60s-70s.  What we go through to restore these muscle cars today is unprecedented.  There was never a previous generation willing to delay gratification on a souped up car project as long as a lot of us do today.  Not a young generation of car guys who had not already been daydreaming about having their specific project car for decades.



Grilles -

The amount of demand is not a fixed thing.  There is only a certain level of demand at $_____ per grille.  More price, less demand. 

 

[jaak]

I always wonder what happened to the tooling that Premier Plastics used a few years back  

I know their customer service sucked and they went belly-up....but what ever happened to the tooling they used?
Its got to be around somewhere. Be nice if it could land in the hands of an honest manufacturer.

**EDIT** I noticed in the OP, it states premiere made them by hand...no tooling. I didn't know that.

Jason

[stripedelete]

Barring a serious leap in technology, I do not believe 2nd Gen grilles will ever be reproduced.

The cost of production and subsequent price verses demand equation does not work out.

1.  It's not the same grille for all three years.  So the market is (roughly) divided into 3rds while production cost triples.  

2.  While 2nd gen prices will not plummet over the next 30 years, all things being equal, they will not keep up.  Baby Boomers are looking toward retirement.  The next generation will not have the same affinity, in the same numbers, for these cars.  Those that do, on-the-whole, will not have the same affluence as the Baby Boomers.  However, without a leap in technology, the price of producing a grille will continue to rise with inflation.  

I have had separate casual conversations with three parts producers/distributors and they have all said the same thing, "it's over as a business".

3. Let's not forget the "shadow inventory" of used grilles out there.  I have 69 NOS center section, a very repairable center section, a near perfect complete 68 grille, and several others busted up 69's.  I have seen garage photos on this site with several, or more, nice center sections hanging on the wall. I'll bet there are hundreds of situations like that.  Not every grille that came out of a rotting shell went into another car.  right now, there a probably 100 chargers out there , if not more, in pieces which will never be put together again.  Many probably have repairable grilles.  Free market economics says these grilles will eventually end up in the correct places.  

Finally, If I had to guess, at some point in the next 20 years, whether due to technology, or ingenuity, someone will come up with an inexpensive jig, or mold, in which a damaged grille can be placed and easily repaired or reinforced.

Just one man's opinion.......  

[73rallye440magnum]

I'm looking forward to exploiting the decreased interest in muscle Mopars in a decade or two. Very very few individuals my age (25) have ANY interest in an old mechanical beast.

I'd actually argue the opposite. I consistently have younger people and teenage kids always ask me about my cars and there's a reason...Pop culture is keeping muscle cars alive. Most EVERY action adventure movie has a muscle car somewhere in the plot or in a cameo and they show up in suprising numbers in music videos.

That is in stark contrast to pre-60's cars highlighted in movies...with the exception of American Grafitti and Christine, it never happened

Also there is the complexity. If one of our car is dead we have...what a carburator and 25 seperate wires to worry about? How many kids today are going to break out a multi-meter and start shooting HUNDREDS of wires, tens of relays and resistors and multiple computers to get a car running?

While we aint going to get rich, Our cars will remain desireable for many years to come  

P.S. I thought they were making '69 Grilles?

I agree to an extent. They are commonly referenced due to the large audience that think they are cool.

No kids are going to break out a multimeter. No kids are going to tune a carb either. I agree with the 'instant gratification' references made earlier...

The economy certainly isn't improving. The muscle car balloon burst along with all the other cheap credit when the fabricated home equity bubble popped.

A lot of people agree that they are cool and interesting. Of that population, very few are as passionate as the group on this site.

They are a special interest vehicle. Not practical by any means. Suitable only for enthusiasts. I speculate the number of enthusiasts will shrink.

[69charger2002]

I always wonder what happened to the tooling that Premier Plastics used a few years back  

I know their customer service sucked and they went belly-up....but what ever happened to the tooling they used?
Its got to be around somewhere. Be nice if it could land in the hands of an honest manufacturer.

**EDIT** I noticed in the OP, it states premiere made them by hand...no tooling. I didn't know that.

Jason

I'd sure like to get my mint original 68 grill i loaned them for a mold. All i ever got back from them was a new 68 center section, which i must say was very nice. But without the buckets, frame, vacuum pods etc, i was left with less than what i originally sent them. Then they went out of business... 

To the OP's question. I don't think a complete grill will ever be reproduced. If 68-70 all were interchangeable, i think the chances would be better. Sure 68-69 share a lot of the same characteristics, but i still don't think the risk/reward is there for a company to legitimately take it on and have to ask $2000+ for a repro grill after tooling and production.. 

[1974dodgecharger]

I drive around with a ghetto spray paint grill..and get laughed at by dudes with NICE grills 

[Cooter]

When one can go to a Swap meet, buy pieces of three to four different grilles, go home and put all four together for half what just the re-pop center section goes for in a whole grille, the re-pop grille money just ain't there.

I built a complete 1968 and a 1969 Grille out of broken junk nobody else wanted. Did it look perfect like some here just have to have? No, but BOTH grilles only cost me $500.00.....Total.

So, until I can buy TWO 1968 and a 1969 Grilles for say $2000.00 BRAND NEW, the money just ain't there. To save $1500.00, I'll work with some busted up junk...

[Baldwinvette77]

I drive around with a ghetto spray paint grill..and get laughed at by dudes with NICE grills 

Ooooooo  What did you use to make it? 

[charger_fan_4ever]

Why is everyone thinking they would be $2k plus ?

If amd sells full 1/4's for $700 I'd think if they did repop them the price would be 1k or less. Dunno

[green69rt]

I was just reading an article on 3D printing.  Seems like a plastic grill would be a perfect apllication for this technology - complicated casting, low production numbers.  I don't have any idea of the pros and cons but it's nice to dream!!

[73rallye440magnum]

A 3D print would not be nearly strong enough to be on the front end of a vehicle.

[areibel]

A 3D print would not be nearly strong enough to be on the front end of a vehicle.

And most places can't make parts above a certain size, you might need to have it made in 12 or 18 or 24 sections and assemble it yourself. Might be an interesting idea for a small patch piece though, if the material improves.

Was Premier doing actual injection molded or was it something like an RTV mold with poured plastic?  I could see the RTV method working, there are some pretty stout resins out there now, the molds would be big but for the price it would be much cheaper than a steel or aluminum mold.

[Old Moparz]

Why is everyone thinking they would be $2k plus ?

If amd sells full 1/4's for $700 I'd think if they did repop them the price would be 1k or less. Dunno

I agree that if the grille is made it won't be $2000. The 1971 Cuda grille is $1099.00 complete with all the inserts & stainless trim. The Charger grille is smaller & probably less complicated to make.

http://www.classicindustries.com/mopar/parts/mn2191.html#.UYkEG0qFM5g

[chargerboy69]

A 3D print would not be nearly strong enough to be on the front end of a vehicle.

Really?  They are printing working AR-15's, handguns, 30 round magazines, I think a grill would hold up just fine.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/27/wiki-weapons-project-shows-3d-printed-gun-part-can-withstand-600-rounds/

[73rallye440magnum]

I stand corrected. However, $$$$???

[areibel]

I'd like to know where they had it made, if they have their own RP process or they're farming it out.  The materials I've seen suffer from one of two problems- brittleness (maybe a thicker part is better?) or they're not stable long term (U/V or thermal), paint can help the U/V but thermal depends a lot on the thickness, how much it can sag (how it's braced), etc..
And I think size would still be a problem, that receiver is probably right at the limit of most commercial RP tanks.. unless these guys have come up with something cool that's not available to the general public yet?