Need help desperately

[Aero426]

 

[skip68]

I'm going out on a limb here.  Tammy, I'm guessing that your son or brother is the rightful owner of this car?    If so then you guys need to fight to get it back.   The person that sold it should've given you a notice of a lean sale.   This really isn't fair to the new owner and hopefully you can become "friendly combatants" and go after the seller that will result in satisfaction for you and the new owner.    This probably won't have the outcome you want but good luck to you.   

[nvrbdn]

well, i guess i need to retract my earlier statement of the possibility of trying to sell the parts for a kings ransom. and the newest letter shows that their intentions have no desire or direction to sell those parts for any amount of money. their legal advisers will direct them in the proper direction though as to how to use those parts on some car that they might get in the future. remember, there are still some good people left in the world.

[ACUDANUT]

To Whom It May Concern,

  This letter is in reference to a 1969 Dodge Charger Daytona that was purchased on an EBay auction number 104633450261 dated November 2011. Listed by Mr. Jim Dunlap in North East Arkansas. The original and only owner was Rick Noble and he purchased the vehicle new in the Fall of 1969 in Dayton, Ohio. Complete vehicle history, title and pictures are within my possession and I will share these with you if so desire. During the early 80s Rick visited us and asked if the Daytona could be placed at our residence until he was ready to restore the vehicle. We moved to Ohio in 1984 and Rick and I decided for security purposes the Daytona should be placed on the property of Patti and Jim Dunlap (Patti is the youngest sister of Rick, Judy and I). Rick and my son, Darin, were planning on making the trip to Arkansas to retrieve the Daytona but before they could make the trip Rick passed away in 2002. As the executor and sole beneficiary of his estate I have tried several times to contact Jim to discuss the return of the Daytona. However Mr. Dunlap informed me that I would need to pay in excess of $76,000.00(seventy-six thousand dollars)for storage fees before the Daytona would be returned. There was never any mention of storage fees written or verbal before Rick's passing. After many attempts my son Darin contacted and spoke to Mr. Dunlap and offered to purchase the Daytona and was promptly denied. Mr. Dunlop had given a false impression that the vehicle had been "scrapped" and he wanted the "junk" out of his field. Within my current possession we have the title notorized in my name and dated for 05/21/2003. Also I have the original wing, both front fenders, nose cone and various miscellaneous parts all items mentioned throughout the Ebay description. I am sure you could imagine our surprise three weeks ago when we discovered it had in fact been auctioned almost two years prior. I would like to contact and speak with the person who placed the final and winning bid on the Daytona. I feel there may be several important issues to discuss, as you can imagine we have several concerns. Upon the advice of legal counsel we were advised to contact purchaser and offer this information before proceeding any further
   

Okay, I am back to my original thoughts...You (Tammy) have come on here and misrepresented why you came on here. 

[62 Max]

One thing for sure ,

[Aero426]

I did receive a PM from Darin posting as Tamera225 a week or so ago.    So you do not know who is really whom.  Not that it matters, I guess.

[Aero426]

I am not a lawyer and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express.   But I do have a couple of thoughts.

1.  I certainly feel for the side of the family that has "lost" the car.    That said, I do not understand why anyone with a significant car would allow it out of their sight for so long, let alone allow it to be stored outdoors on someone else's property.   I assume it was not insured.   

2.  It would seem that the legal remedy is really between the title holder and the relative who sold the car for financial gain.   If there is a legal angle to seek advice on, this is it.    The car is gone.    Where is the money?

3.  I have no idea what the statute of limitations on such matters are and I assume the estate was settled.   It is ten years since the owner died.  That seems like a long time.

4.  Because of the casual arrangement for storage (decades ago?), it would seem there is a lot of room for he said/she said.    Not to mention that one of the parties is now dead.   Where was the owners attorney when the outrageous storage bill was presented? 

5.  The legal expense of attempting to reclaim a car that needs potentially $100,000 in restoration does not make a lot of sense.  Perhaps the only winners would be the lawyers and still no car in the end.   

6.  The car is now located in another COUNTRY.   That would seem to add an additional layer of complexity and expense.

7.  Once again, I feel for the side of the family who has lost possession of the car.

[held1823]

i am assuming that two title copies (with two different dates) exist. if so, the most recent one will almost always prevail, especially with the person requesting it being the executor of the owner's estate.

if the one hanging on the fridge is the original one, it is about to cost someone a fortune in legal fees, only to end up being a conversation piece.

that said, the front end parts could find a happy home in indiana.....

[Tamera225]

Thanks for all the comments everyone has posted. It appears that some readers have perhaps misunderstood a few integral parts of the story. The purpose of the discussion topic was to hear all the different perspectives from various members. That has worked out awesomely because I believe I've heard them all lol... The Good, Bad and Ugly. The main point I am trying to get across is that we would like to make contact with the new owner to discuss the possibility of working together in order to have the "thief" investigated and made to realize just how bad his decision to lie (several times),hide the vehicle, sell and hoard the cash for himself without informing the family of his actions. Yes, I am aware that it would seem that my friend would want the car back at any cost. But that would solve nothing and the new owner has no fault at all. Therefore, my friend and his family wants the seller to at least acknowledge and reprimanded for his wrong doing, greed and selfishness. See... Simple right?

[held1823]

The main point I am trying to get across is that we would like to make contact with the new owner to discuss the possibility of working together in order to have the "thief" investigated and made to realize just how bad his decision to lie (several times),hide the vehicle, sell and hoard the cash for himself without informing the family of his actions.

why does this all come about, so long after the fact? time may well work against you.

[A383Wing]

no matter how this keeps going, I don't think "simple" is the term I would use

[skip68]

I hear you Tammy.   I would think proving your case and getting some kind of judgment is the only hope.   Then pick up another 69 Charger that needs work and build another Daytona.   Maybe you guys should go after the jerk that sold the car for storage fees on the parts you've been storing.       just kidding.    If you're lucky enough to get a judgment but he claims he has no money then you go get a writ and take some of his personal property.   

[1970Moparmann]

Where is Stuart with the popcorn?

This is getting more and more interesting.

Skip, we're going to call you Columbo from now on.

[rainbow4jd]

Tamara, your attorney should be advising you of the following...

1) The vehicle is considered part of the Estate, provided you (as Executor) showed due diligence in attempting to secure the assets of the Estate at the time of death.   You will likely need to prove what actions you took.  Gas receipts, copies of letters sent, etc etc etc

2) You have may have the right to report the vehicle stolen, and have criminal charges pressed against the person with whom you sought to recover the vehicle (the person who had voluntarily took possession of the vehicle without compensation).   This action may also lead you to the person who purchased the vehicle.  In addition, eBay is obligated in the case of a criminal action to surrender both seller and purchaser information under a court order.

3) You certainly have the right to pursue civil action for damages and expenses and material loss of property related to the unwillingness of the storer to return the property to the Estate.

4) There is a secondary and related issue of "abandonment".   To have a car declared as "abandoned" and received a "junk yard title" many states require the posting of a public notice, or filing suit against the state, and providing information as to HOW the person seeking abandonment status obtained the vehicle.   This could potential lead to a charge of criminal fraud in addition to theft.

5) As Executrix, you have a financial responsibility.   Recovery of the car is a secondary issue to the financial issue.  You want the money.  You want it from the person who sold it, and you can sue for additional damages if you believe they sold it for less than fair market value. 

6) Unless you pursue the avenue of a criminal charge, you really have no financial standing with the current owner of the vehicle, IF they obtained a state issued salvage title from the storer.  If they obtained the title themselves you might have actions aginst them i.e. they didnt show due diligence in obtaining a title or conspired to commit fraud.

You have a complex issue - but think less of recovery of the car and ONLY recovery of dollars - which is your responsibility.   It would seem that recover must be directed against the person who took the car into storage.

Good luck.

[held1823]

we may need a program guide to keep up with the cast of characters in this saga.

[held1823]

i gather that Rick, the deceased owner, had two sisters, Judy and Patti.

the oldest sister (Judy) was the executor of Rick's estate, and is also the mother of Darin, who is Tammy's friend.

the car was placed on the property of Patti, the youngest sister of Rick.

based on Tammy's account, Patti scammed Judy, who still has a title (in her name)  to a car that is now in canada with a new owner?

this would make sense to this point, but for this part of tammy's post...

Patti is the youngest sister of Rick, Judy and I

who, is "I" ?


then there is this....

As the executor and sole beneficiary of his estate I have tried several times to contact Jim to discuss the return of the Daytona.

i believe Tammy is posting a statement made by Judy, the sister who "sought to keep peace in the family" while also standing to inherit the entire estate. so the sister entrusted with possession of the car was to be cut out of the brother's will, assuming that there was one?

[Patronus]

It must be Susan, the dog groomer's niece's next door neighbors's vacation planner. 

[pettybird]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZd_YyFzPD0

[Redbird]

Who knows what is really happening here. I'm guessing the original front clip and wing will not be reunited with the body they were mated to at Creative any time soon. Another guess, these  parts may be on a different body sooner and for a long time.

There was an article on the improper conveyance of an old Ferrari in the "Legal Files" column of Sports Car Market a year or so ago. Legal mess. I believe the Court awarded ownership of the car to someone other than the person who had possessed the car for decades. It also was across Country borders.

This sounds like a mess beyond belief for a number of people.

It sounds like several folks need a lawyer.

[ACUDANUT]

"Our intentions for the car was to simply talk to the new owner. We thought he may be interested in discussing the car and parts since several of the original parts are with my friend. I do not feel it is fair for everyone to gang up and automatically assume that the purpose of this with bad intentions. There are good people left in this world"


It does not sound like this now.

[ACUDANUT]

"Mr. Acudanut,
    My friends' parents posted the comment on my forum 1) because their legal advisor told them to. 2) They are not out to "get" the new owner, the car returned or money. Its basically the principle of the situation. There was a more recent post stated by another member that pretty much sums the entire purpose of the family's intentions up... What we would like to see happen is buddy work. The people wronged in this situation do not intend to do further harm by hurting someone that simply purchased a vehicle. We don't want to make someone feel like the family did when the Daytona was basically stolen and taken from someone that loved it dearly. We are all entitled to our opinion it is up to the reader what we do with that advice. Thank you for contributing and reading our post..."

[held1823]

legal representation along with the mention of being wronged aren't the usual components of a happily-ever-after story.

spite the evil sister and the unsuspecting buyer both, by sending the front end parts here.

[Tamera225]

 ;)Hi to all...  Thanks to Rainbow4jd for the advice and also to Held1283 for trying to decipher the "cast members" lol... The people involved are all relatives of Rick. There were 3 sister's and Rick. The eldest name is Elaine and she is the sole beneficiary and executor to Rick's estate. Elaine is also the Mother of my friend, Darin. Then there is Patti and Judi. Patti is married to Jim and their property is the place Rick parked the Daytona at. Held1283 is also correct when he stated that it sounded as though the person was telling me what to type. Although I did make a few errors in the post I can assure you that when I'm posting anything like that letter the family members are the people speaking and I'm typing. After many attempts at contacting the Dunlap's the family was informed the car had been scrapped out by Jim. Therefore, it wasn't that the family was not interested in the vehicle and did not want it but that they were devastated due to the fact that the Daytona was such a rarity and the thought of it being scrapped out was nauseating and uncalled for. If Jim posted any notification in the newspaper about the abandonment of the Daytona the family would not have read it since they did reside in Ohio and the notification would've been in an Arkansas paper. But if that was the case he should have posted it in the state of the last known address of the original owner (Rick), right? That would be the state of Ohio. The title is dated 2003 and is in Elaine's name. All these pieces when put together is proof enough to show that the Dunlap's were motivated by  greed,  spitefulness  towards Darin and just down right vindictiveness . The people emotionally hurt are the Elaine, her husband, Darrell and Darin. Darin and Rick's relationship was that of an Uncle and nephew that had intentions of restoring the Daytona and creating a memory to put with the story of the car. Now, Darin has various parts that were given to him by Rick because Darin had the garage, land and tools necessary to restore the car but no Daytona. The family wants everyone to know that their intentions are not to get the car back or to scam the new owner but to have justice served on Jim. After all wouldn't a car thief that is caught be tried and sentenced for his crime?
Also, everyone PLEASE remember that everyone mentioned in these postings are related and were considered family members. So it isn't like the Dunlap's didn't know how to contact the family and inform them of his intentions. The estate would have been divided 3 ways. But the Dunlap's kept the entire $45000.00.

[Nwcharger]

That really sucks to have such a cool car sold by someone that knows that it was suppose to someone else. I can guess the new owner had no idea the real history of the car. I know it sounds sad but getting that car back is very slim chance. If it can't happen I would just keep the parts and build a clone/tribute car in honor of the original owner. Or if you ever decide to sell the parts (which I'm sure you don't) I own a wrecked Daytona that needs everything and would be very interested in them.  

[arrow]

 This has all the makings of the Stand Up General Lee mess!!- dont know how that turned out , could this Daytona be imported into Canada without proper paper work -all the same - bet the new owner is glad the car is in Canada and not the US!!