Looking for new rims, opinions wanted

[Dino]

Will any of these work for the photoshop wizards?

My current tires are Firestone 215/70R14.

[bill440rt]

Couldn't have said it better than Cayman.   

On a Charger you can go upwards of a 19" wheel without chartering into "rubber band" territory. Once you hit 20", it gets too thin. Of course, opinions are subjective, that's just mine.
The Chevelle's 17" wheels in that photo look proportionate, on a big car like that you almost don't notice they are 17".

Check out Diamondback Classics for tires. They have redlines in tire sizes up to 20", and if there are no offerings you like they can put a redline on any tire. 
http://www.dbtires.com/2013_catalog/2013_DBTiresCatalog_Web_Hi.pdf

[K9COP]

Thank you gentlemen. i'll try and work some photoshop magic on the pics, give me a day or so, had a crisis here tonight to deal with. Stand by.

CS

p.s. Have to change my user ID, hate be known by the name of that rediculous dump.

Mav

[WHITE AND RED 69]

I couldn't find the charger pic but this one shows how big wheels look with the white letters. I personally dig it.   

[Cooter]

Will any of these work for the photoshop wizards?

My current tires are Firestone 215/70R14.

You'd be surprized at the "Non-deformomatic" 15 INCH tires that are out there Dino. I think you'd be surprized at what an upgrade to simple 15-16" with some GOOD tires, and not those "Uber-soft" sidewall thingies you got on there would do for handling. Not everybody who likes 15-16" wheels needs 295/50/15" aspect ratios. We even like some specialty tires built for handling too. But alas, sounds like you have your work cut out for you deciding, so have at it.

PS: Wonder how the 15-16" wheel cars ever made it round a corner back in the 80's? Wow, we musta stacked up a BUNCH of cars huh? BTW, the bullitt Mustang woulda won if the producers kept handicapping the Charger with I believe it was called "Handicap" tires? It still out performed the stang, saying it "Ran away from the stang"...Yes, even with those "deformomatic" tires on it.

[HPP]

You'd be surprized at the "Non-deformomatic" 15 INCH tires that are out there Dino. I think you'd be surprized at what an upgrade to simple 15-16" with some GOOD tires, and not those "Uber-soft" sidewall thingies you got on there would do for handling. Not everybody who likes 15-16" wheels needs 295/50/15" aspect ratios. We even like some specialty tires built for handling too. But alas, sounds like you have your work cut off deciding, so have at it.

So, out of curiosity, what in your opinion constitutes a good handling 15" tire? From what I see widely available, the vast majorty of wide 15" tires are S/T rated with 300-400 tread wear. Not exactly a grippy combination. However, I will agree that while they may not provide ultimate grip, they are not a dangerous tire to use in commuter conditions and no one should be afraid to use them on their classic.Heck, as hard as most of these cars are driven, they are more than adequate.

I know there are some oddball V rated tires in 205-225 size ranges, but thats a bit skinny for a Charger. MT SR and Maxxis Marauders are both H rated with low tread wear ratings. If you really, really are dedicated about thrashing your Charger in handling arenas and require wide sticky d.o.t. tires, there actually are V and Z rated tires out there in wide widths, but prices start at $350 each and go up to around a grand a piece.

http://www.avonmotorsport.com/historic/road-legal/cr6zz
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cok-71231/overview/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pir-0898600/overview/

[Cooter]

One will spend over $2500-$3000.00 in wheels and tires, Another $5-9K in front/rear suspension, and can't afford $350/tire?

If you can affords to play, you can affords to pay..Nobody ever said this sh*t was cheap... Everybody is quick to thumb down the bandwagon for the "OMG! I gotta have the biggest rims/tires I can get cause I'm gonna drive my Car around some little cones in a parking lot" when in fact, most of their "Hard driving" comes in around 9-11 PM after cruise night on the way home.... on the STREET. Only because the tires are available, do people run the 18-19" wheels. It's easier. Personally, I do NOT drive double the speed limit long enough to need to "Cut corners". That's stupid on the street. However, I do not care about handling in that sense, but understand how some would. I just don't buy the fact that All you have for options is 20" wheels looking like a bad Chip Foose commercial.

15-16" tires and rims can do everything you big rim guys tend to think only you can do, but it just takes a little more thought and effort with the 15-16" wheels. Contrary top popular belief, I do NOT buy the fact that if I want my junk to go round corners, I Simply MUST buy the 18-19" wheels and tires simply because that's what's cheaper/easier/available...Nope, if I wanted to go that route, I'd have built a 1968 Camaro. Also, I prefer a tire on my junk [On the street] that'll last longer than 15K miles before it's slick. Handling or not.
IF you actually DRIVE your Car set up for handling, you will burn through a set of those "Sticky" tires in about 4-5 trips to that "Cone lot", either way I don't see the average enthusiast spending that kinda coin on tires every two weeks. Maybe one rich dude out of 10 regular guys. I see alot of the "Big rim" cars "Built" to handle, and owners claiming to "Drive them round corners", but rarely does it get put into use. Especially, when I see threads like "Why am I wearing out tires in 5K miles?", or "What's a decent tire?________Wore out in 10K miles!"

[Dino]

Cooter you make absolutely valid points, I can't argue with that.  I've always been a 15" kinda guy (my wife started laughing all of a sudden, I don't know why..)

But I also like the bigger rim look, not too big though.  I think 17" is just right for a car this size.  Still nothing wrong with a 15" either but to be honest I'm getting a bit burned out on cragars and magnum wheels.  They still look good but they're friggin' everywhere!

I will eventually find a set of 15" steelies and throw some fat rwl tires on it just in case I want to go out and play but right now I want those mb wheels and the only ones that look good in the back are the 17" version.

I have always loved Finn's car, I think it's one of the coolest 2nd gens around and he's running the same wheel but bigger.

So here's what I'm getting:  MB Old School 17x8 with 4.5 bs and 245/45r17 up front.  17x9.5 with 5.5 bs and 275/50r17 on the back.  That gives me a difference of roughly 2" front to back.  Tires will be Nitto 450 in the back and Nitto 555 on the front.  They're a bit different but  it's all I could find in this size.  I wanted a 295 on the back but can't find any with a decent sidewall.  I also don't think it'll look good to fill in the letters with white paint seeing it says 'Nitto' but we'll see.

Whatcha think guys?

Now, I will also need to upgrade the brakes.  Since I will have room to spare, I don't think it's worth the trouble to install the 10.75" front Wilwood disck brake kit, even though I have all the parts.  Not sure what to do in the back, rebuild and keep the drums?

I need to take the car in soon to have the exhaust leak fixed, TQ installted and engine tuned, minor trans leak needs to be fixed.  Then I also need to buy and have the suspension bushing installed and the a'c charged so I'm looking at spending a few bucks here...which means I probably won't be able to buy new brakes just yet so if I want to run the wheels in the meantime then I'll have to get right hand threaded studs.

What's the best (bang for buck) disc brake kit to fit the 17" wheels?  This is for a daily driver type of car, not a once in a blue moon cruiser.

[bill440rt]

Do to YOUR car what YOU like and what makes YOU happy. End of story. 

If you can swing the bigger Wilwood 6-piston kit and it fits behind the 17" wheels I'd go for it.
The smaller 2-piston kit will probably be on par or may be just slightly better than stock.

If you go with bigger front brakes balancing them with rear drums might be tricky, so now you might find yourself considering rear discs as well.
But what the heck, it's ONLY money!     

Good luck, Dino. Just do what makes you happy.

[Dino]

Thanks Bill, I think these wheels would make me happy.   

I'm all for having disc all the way around but I've always head that discs on the rear are not all that much better than discs.  I don't know if it's true or not. 

I would like to have the best brakes possible on this car seeing as I almost s;lammed into that damn suv last week.  I need this car to stop as best as possible, period.

Yep, it's only money...but I need it for other things as well.   

Too  bad I can't use the 4 piston Wilwood kit but it would be kinda silly to use a 10.75" disc when I can fit upwards of 12".  Bigger is better right?

[71green go]

Dino...Did you get pricing on those rims and tires?........I love them, perfect tire sizes too....I may have to copy you thanks for doing all the hard work !

[HPP]

Cooter, that is kind of my point. Very few owners drive their cars at a pace the necessitates "ultra" performance rubber, yet it seems to be the trend these days. Yes it does seem counter intutive to see guys dump $5-10k into suspension set ups so they can run $150 tires only to take their car to the local show and shine, but like bill said, we each get to build our cars our own way. If some of us can show up and perform on par with cars costing 3-4x as much, bully for us.

Dino, you might want to look at Maxxis Marauders for a selection of taller aspect ratio 17" tires in a large variety of widths. Biggest challenge with these guys will be finding a local distributor. Most of their experience is in motorcycle and atv tires, so you might be able to convince a lcoal cycle shop to pick some up for you.

http://www.maxxis.com/AutomobileLight-Truck/Light-Truck-SUV/MA-S1-Marauder.aspx
http://www.maxxis.com/AutomobileLight-Truck/Light-Truck-SUV/MA-S2-Marauder-II.aspx

Also, if you already have a Wilwood set up, you might call them and see if you can swap out your current rotor for a 12 or 13" unit with the accompanying caliper adapter. Wilwoods catalog is really pretty modular and a lot of their kits can interchange pieces. You don't necessarily need 6 piston calipers either, but I think  a conversation with their tech line would help you out.

[Patronus]

A 13" rotor fits real nice in a 17" wheel..

[WHITE AND RED 69]

Give Cass at Dr. diff a call for your brakes. He is a super cool guy to deal with and will run you though all the kits he can make.

http://www.doctordiff.com/

He makes a bunch of different setups at great prices. He has front and rear kits (with rotor sizes from 11-14") that use cobra calipers that use a the same pads as a 2000 mustang cobra, so getting pads at any parts store is no problem.

He also makes kits using a viper caliper if that's a direction you want to go.

Now if you want the brakes to work the best, look into a hydroboost master cylinder. Pricey but hands down one of the best improvements I have installed on my car.  

[WHITE AND RED 69]

Wilwood is also doing a sale of the 6 piston calipers with a 12.88 rotor for $1000 bucks. 

[Dino]

Thanks for the tips guys.  After buying wheels and doing the necessary repairs, I'm not going to spend any more for brakes.  I'm in the middle of planning the rest of my degree and I'm looking at going part time in the fall so bye bye good paycheck!

I would love a hydroboost master but that will have to wait as well.  I don't know if it's wise to use the 4 piston caliper with bigger discs but I'll give them a call and see what they say.

I wish I could find the tire sizes in one type of tire but no luck, not even with the Marauders so I guess I'l have different tread patterns front to back.  Oh well...

green go, I'll let you know the total cost, should be in the $1300-$1400 range installed and balanced, mounted on the car.

[Dino]

Oh and since my car still has the left hand threaded studs on the driver's side, I need to replace them with rh threaded.  I have 5 new studs for the rear but which do I need for the front drum?

[Patronus]

Are you sure the fronts are LH too...I thought just the rears...?

[Dino]

Are you sure the fronts are LH too...I thought just the rears...?

Both are LH.  I never looked for RH studs for the front since I had the Wilwood kit to replace the entire drum setup.

Would anyone have a picture of a 2nd gen that has tires close in this size?  Front about 25.7" tall, rear about 27.8" tall.

That would be the tire height for the 245/45 and 275/50 combo.  I love the staggered look but this is 2 inches and may be a bit much.  I could get a 245/50 which would be 26.65" tall but that may be too much.  A picture would really help.

In 15" equivalent the front would be 225/60/15 @ 25.6" or a 245/60/15 @ 26.6"

The rear would be 275/60/15 @ 28"

I know a lot of guys runa 235/60 up fornt which is 26.10"

This is just so I can see the height difference front to back.

Oh and a pic of a 225 wide tire on the front would be great as well.  I can get a 225/50 in the same tire as the 275/50 giving me a front tire height of 25.9" and a rear height of 27.8" which would be perfect all the way around...but I think a 225 may be a bit too narrow.

[Dino]

Well I'm starting to burn out on this stuff.  I've been reading reviews on tires and people seem to love the Nitto nt555's but not the nt450's and that's the only one they have in a 275/50.  Then I read reviews that these 17" tires won't be as good a street tire as a 15".. WTF???

Does anyone running 17" tires feel they are not as grippy as a 15?  I don't see how that's possible but with the amount of money I'm about to spend I'd like to be sure this is the way to go.

[71green go]

Well I'm starting to burn out on this stuff.  I've been reading reviews on tires and people seem to love the Nitto nt555's but not the nt450's and that's the only one they have in a 275/50.  Then I read reviews that these 17" tires won't be as good a street tire as a 15".. WTF???

Does anyone running 17" tires feel they are not as grippy as a 15?  I don't see how that's possible but with the amount of money I'm about to spend I'd like to be sure this is the way to go.

I think you are overthinking things too much........A 17" with a lower sidewall has to handle better then a 15" with a tall sidewall, as far as grip that depends on softness of tire compound , an all season tire will not be as good as a summer only tire, but will last longer.....I would go with all season type tires as the others wear so quickly.

Hurry up and buy them so I can see them installed! 

[Dino]

Well I'm starting to burn out on this stuff.  I've been reading reviews on tires and people seem to love the Nitto nt555's but not the nt450's and that's the only one they have in a 275/50.  Then I read reviews that these 17" tires won't be as good a street tire as a 15".. WTF???

Does anyone running 17" tires feel they are not as grippy as a 15?  I don't see how that's possible but with the amount of money I'm about to spend I'd like to be sure this is the way to go.

I think you are overthinking things too much........A 17" with a lower sidewall has to handle better then a 15" with a tall sidewall, as far as grip that depends on softness of tire compound , an all season tire will not be as good as a summer only tire, but will last longer.....I would go with all season type tires as the others wear so quickly.

Hurry up and buy them so I can see them installed! 

Well the rims themselves won't be in untill the end of the month.  The Nitto NT450 is an all season tire while the NT555 is a summer tire.  I do drive the car untill December so I do drive it when it's around freezin but apart from that it's pretty much a aspring/summer car.  Michigan winters are a bit too much for a rear wheel driven 440.

You're right though, I'm running very old Firestone 14" tires, how much worse can it get!   

I just want to do this only once, I have enough on my plate as it is!

[Dino]

Since I don't want less of a sidewall than a 50% ratio I don't have many options, but I could go up a bit and get a 275/55r17 which is 28.9" tall (too much?).  Hankook has these and they have a 235/55 at 27.2" tall.  It'll be that or the Nitto's.  Advice welcome!

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Hankook&tireModel=Ventus+AS+RH07&sidewall=Blackwall&partnum=755VR7RH07&tab=Sizes

EDIT:  reviews on these are horrible so I'm nixing the Hankook's.  Looks like I'm gonna have two different types of Nitto's.

[HPP]

  Then I read reviews that these 17" tires won't be as good a street tire as a 15".. WTF???

Does anyone running 17" tires feel they are not as grippy as a 15?  I don't see how that's possible but with the amount of money I'm about to spend I'd like to be sure this is the way to go.

A lot of that opinion is not about grip, but their ability to absorb abuse. A 60 series sidewall can take a lot of harshness out of the ride that a 35 series will not. If you live in an area strewn with pot holes and poor maintanence, then sacrificing some grip to save $2000 worth of wheels from damage amy be a reasonable compromise. Price is not necessarily a good indicator of grip or performance capability. You need to read the UTQC codes to drill down into that.

Myself, I don't put a lot of faith in the online reviews I see on tires. There are too many variables to definitively say what is a tire that best meets my needs and we all have those variables that cloud our perceptions. Someone who wants long life but buys a 180 treadwear is going to have a poor review of the wear characteristics. Size, speed ratings, and treadwear definitions usually direct my buys, then I balance those against cost for the application. You have to prioritize what your needs are and then define those against manufacturer specs. Since size seems to be the biggest priority for you, then use that to narrow the list. Then use your secondary criteria to par it down further, then the third, etc until you have one or two candidates. Since tires are a consumable component, don't kill yourself over the selection. You could agonize over this for weeks only to find the perfect set up that then becomes unavailble in two or three years or whenever you need to replace them.

[Dino]

  Then I read reviews that these 17" tires won't be as good a street tire as a 15".. WTF???

Does anyone running 17" tires feel they are not as grippy as a 15?  I don't see how that's possible but with the amount of money I'm about to spend I'd like to be sure this is the way to go.

A lot of that opinion is not about grip, but their ability to absorb abuse. A 60 series sidewall can take a lot of harshness out of the ride that a 35 series will not. If you live in an area strewn with pot holes and poor maintanence, then sacrificing some grip to save $2000 worth of wheels from damage amy be a reasonable compromise. Price is not necessarily a good indicator of grip or performance capability. You need to read the UTQC codes to drill down into that.

Myself, I don't put a lot of faith in the online reviews I see on tires. There are too many variables to definitively say what is a tire that best meets my needs and we all have those variables that cloud our perceptions. Someone who wants long life but buys a 180 treadwear is going to have a poor review of the wear characteristics. Size, speed ratings, and treadwear definitions usually direct my buys, then I balance those against cost for the application. You have to prioritize what your needs are and then define those against manufacturer specs. Since size seems to be the biggest priority for you, then use that to narrow the list. Then use your secondary criteria to par it down further, then the third, etc until you have one or two candidates. Since tires are a consumable component, don't kill yourself over the selection. You could agonize over this for weeks only to find the perfect set up that then becomes unavailble in two or three years or whenever you need to replace them.

Thanks for putting it into perspective, you are absolutely right.

Initially I was set on 15" rims mainly for comfort but I found out that on Michigan roads, all of them feel hars.  I have low profile 17's on my Honda and my wife's TA has low 17's as well.  Out suv has high sidewall tires and it's still a harsh ride.  It's all in the roads, new paved roads are silky smooth AND I need to replace my old suspension as well.