5years and still in the garage, and ready to finish

[miller time]

^thanks
im told to make the trunk "lips" under trunk corners, perfect and bodywork perfect before building the car, body work is the soul reason my car has taken 5 years, no one near me is good at bodywork, or reasonable. But since the engine is almost finished if the car is not done, then I am going to start assembling and building my car, and just knock down the bondo and spray some color.
Is there a way to build a car with minimum body work that needs minimal disassembly before painting?
and what can i do on the car that wont interfere with painting and body work?
its an empty shell with a steering column suspension brakes, fuel and brake lines and tires, thanks

[Dino]

^thanks
im told to make the trunk "lips" under trunk corners, perfect and bodywork perfect before building the car, body work is the soul reason my car has taken 5 years, no one near me is good at bodywork, or reasonable. But since the engine is almost finished if the car is not done, then I am going to start assembling and building my car, and just knock down the bondo and spray some color.
Is there a way to build a car with minimum body work that needs minimal disassembly before painting?
and what can i do on the car that wont interfere with painting and body work?
its an empty shell with a steering column suspension brakes, fuel and brake lines and tires, thanks

After all that work, time and money you're going to be kicking yourself for a long time to come if you don't do the prep and paint right.  There has to be someone who can do body work?  Place an ad on CL, I used to do body work on the weekends all the time.

[fizz]

Body work is tedious, tiring, dirty work. Making a living is why people do it. The really good guys add self satisfaction by doing classic or custom work. A body man worthy of working on a classic cars should be making $20+. A shop needs to add 30+ per hr. to cover real estate and overhead. It takes me about 5 years of free time to complete a car, mechanical, interior, etc. About 2 years is body and paint. I believe I get around 1000 hrs in body and paint, although I havn't kept track. A $1500 compressor and a $1000 worth of tools and a couple thousand in good material will get it close to paint. Alot of guys have the equipment in their home garages to do side work and their own stuff, and will do the work for side money. Doing the work in their off time is what it is, especially when they are already working full time. I just completed new quarters, floors, dissasembly to the last bolt, derusting , sandblasting engine bay and undercarraige, sanding off all paint on the exterior sheetmetal. It is going to a GOOD body shop for finish body work, prime and paint and will spend $10,000+. It will take 4-6 months, as collision repair will come first, but will look better than new when done.

[Dino]

Body work is tedious, tiring, dirty work. Making a living is why people do it. The really good guys add self satisfaction by doing classic or custom work. A body man worthy of working on a classic cars should be making $20+. A shop needs to add 30+ per hr. to cover real estate and overhead. It takes me about 5 years of free time to complete a car, mechanical, interior, etc. About 2 years is body and paint. I believe I get around 1000 hrs in body and paint, although I havn't kept track. A $1500 compressor and a $1000 worth of tools and a couple thousand in good material will get it close to paint. Alot of guys have the equipment in their home garages to do side work and their own stuff, and will do the work for side money. Doing the work in their off time is what it is, especially when they are already working full time. I just completed new quarters, floors, dissasembly to the last bolt, derusting , sandblasting engine bay and undercarraige, sanding off all paint on the exterior sheetmetal. It is going to a GOOD body shop for finish body work, prime and paint and will spend $10,000+. It will take 4-6 months, as collision repair will come first, but will look better than new when done.

I can't really agree with some of that.  I did collision, custom and resto and it's collison that pays because it's a no hassle job with a steady paycheck.  I loved doing restos but you can't count having a full time job with those.  Sure you get more satisfaction to do classic cars but if there's no work then what can you do?

And for body men it's not tedious, tiring or dirty.  It's what they want to do.  I hated the politics, as with all jobs, but the work is very satisfying.

Maybe you don't like it much and that's fine, but not everyone feels that way.  I love bodywork and can't wait to redo my car. 

[miller time]

i had typed a book of a response, but im going to keep it short, theres 1 last chance for the body work to be done other then that im not wasting my time, money, or risking getting robbed, by some moron, same goes with local shops. after all getting screwed by 2 separate body shops, i could careless about giving another shop a chance, ill just wind up stripping off their screw ups, as usual.
maby ill just go to econo paint, then only want $200 to prep and paint, screw it then i know im getting crap and wont be able to cry about it lol does actually sound like the best idea so far.

ok fizz you put it like that im just wasting my time and i wont consider body work anymore, $10,000 and 4 months to a year, other jobs put ahead of me, No Thanks, sounds like you work for the shops around me.

i dont have alot of money, which isnt even the issue, the issue is the cars going to get done, whether it finishes with the horses out front or the wagon out front, its getting done, im just making the attack plan, every time i think about it the less and less i truly care about making it "pretty" that just means some minority will smash into it with a $500 car and no insurance, because that how life goes
im only 20.... why will i regret paying or having alot more money to redo the lame body work years from now.... seems like thatd be smarter then cheapin out the first time, like what usually happens?? atleast if fizz is right thatd be the only way itd ever happen

[miller time]

by the way thanks for both your responses! happy 7/11

[fizz]

No offense meant. I did body work out of tech school for 10 years, incurable motorhead. I did semi trucks to pay the bills, and cool stuff on the side. I burnt out and went back to school for engineering. My buddies and their buddies would talk me into doing their stuff. I would say I'll do it when I have time, and they would say no prob. A bike was easy and would finish in 2-3 weeks. A car was forever because I didn't feel like working on them every day and weekend. Then I would get phone calls until they made me feel guilty and would work every moment of nonwork or sleep time. But to the best of my ablity, they were perfect. I only charged $15/ hr + material, which isn't peanuts if that is what the customer makes per hour.  My last customer job was 11 years ago. When people ask now I offer to help them in my shop if they are there every minute I am there. So far, no takers, I feel because they think their free time is too valuable. In that case, I think they should take their stuff to a good body shop that does classic cars, and pay the bill. I realize there are alot of shops that don't do this stuff and you would be disappointed, but somebody is creating the really nice cars. Really, anybody can do this stuff if they educate themselves, buy some tools, and pay attention to detail, if they think it is worth their time. And there lies the story time or money. Anything less than what it takes is a waste of time.

[miller time]

When people ask now I offer to help them in my shop if they are there every minute I am there. So far, no takers, I feel because they think their free time is too valuable.

if your shops close by me ill be there everyday, i have the tools and materials and wouldnt mind pay upwards of $20 maby even $25 an hour but they have to have both quality and speed, ill be right there if theyll let me ill mix mud and run a sanding board but its a waste of time to do all the work since i can only get it "EHH" at best and then there still no one worth while to do the body lines and final bodywork.

[fizz]

I am in MN, and if you really want to do it I am happy to coach you thru. I bet other guys would too. First step. Pick a panel and set your mind to only that panel. Pick an easy one first and post a pic. My daughter did a vw bug @ 14 by doing exactly what I told her.

[miller time]

I am in MN, and if you really want to do it I am happy to coach you thru. I bet other guys would too. First step. Pick a panel and set your mind to only that panel. Pick an easy one first and post a pic. My daughter did a vw bug @ 14 by doing exactly what I told her.

im in florida, thanks though

[1974dodgecharger]

Almost miller time yet to burn some rubber 

[miller time]

SOOO yeah 
i have brand new (less then a week old) aluminum stealth heads, platinum pistons and rods from 440 source, Big 545 lift cam, timing chain, ARP bolts, Clevite 77 bearings, ECT.
took it all to my buddies house to build im all ready just saw my BRAND NEW $1200 heads and $100 head bolts and the engines on the stand, i spin it right side up and
BAMM i have 4 cracks on my freeze plugs, 2 on both sides, center freeze plug, ranges from, 1/2inch up to 4inches long
i took it immediately back to the machine shop, who with in 15 minutes decide my block is only worthy of a 1 time boat anchor
so i have about $3500 in parts for the block, and over $450 in machine work in a block that is completely worthless
BUT he said if i bring a block to the shop i will get it back ready to build with my parts, no charge for machine work
my buddy has a 1973 440 stock bore, $300, i have a 1968 440 that was bore'd 30 over
opinions?
ive been painting my butt off and everything else on this car recently to get it running, i didnt need this to happen, especially when im broke, because of the damn unusable block
thanks for all ideas and opinions, dont talk down me....

[JB400]

What size of pistons did you buy for your current boat anchor?  I would almost go ahead and get your buddies block if it checks out.


Sorry to hear about your misfortune

[Aero426]

If you need a block, get the standard bore one over to the machine shop.   It sounds like the machine shop will make you whole.   

[Patronus]

I am in MN, and if you really want to do it I am happy to coach you thru. I bet other guys would too. First step. Pick a panel and set your mind to only that panel. Pick an easy one first and post a pic. My daughter did a vw bug @ 14 by doing exactly what I told her.

Not too sure I agree with that either..To make it straight you'll pick a side. You get hung up on one panel and you might be asking for trouble. 

[miller time]

I am in MN, and if you really want to do it I am happy to coach you thru. I bet other guys would too. First step. Pick a panel and set your mind to only that panel. Pick an easy one first and post a pic. My daughter did a vw bug @ 14 by doing exactly what I told her.

Not too sure I agree with that either..To make it straight you'll pick a side. You get hung up on one panel and you might be asking for trouble. 

you also cant judge or teach body work in letters, but thats i dead horse ive been ignoring for a while

[miller time]

storker- they are like .030 over so if its stock bore with little to no, corrosion then it should be good to punch, but im holding the machine shop responsible if they clear it to be machined, and it has a crack i find after, im making them buy me a "perfect" block. or refund me plus a block, and then some.
also
aero, thats the plan, i dont plan on giving them $1 to fix this, there most massive of Effe Ups. IJS
so its looks like ill be building a 73 440 and not a 68 440,, that leaves a bad taste in my mouth, my cars production date is sept 68  

P.S. numbers dont match! or this would be some kind of different.

[miller time]

im going to try and take the 73 440 block to the shop tomorrow if life works out good, shouldnt be anything out of pocket right now, atleast not till the block is checked and machined, if im that lucky  

[JB400]

Fingers crossed for you that it works in your favor.

[miller time]

Fingers crossed for you that it works in your favor.

thank you

[miller time]

UpDate
painted underside of hood, trunk lid, inside of doors, around windows, and touched up everything else with car color.
re epoxy primer'd the whole outside of the car, and panels, done painting for the most part, for a while!
finished the sound deadner application
sanded down and got some kind of body lines out of my bondo, i applied
almost done painting and ready to install - Dash, steering column, brake & parking brakes

Wanted
#1 GOOD EFFIN 440 BLOCK
wiring
brakes
dash and steering column
hang the doors and trunk lid
install the motor if i so get it and paint the headers/engine, before so
Just Get The Car Ready To Drive, Bare Bones. some call it rat rod, but, im just going nothing fancy just functional, right now, no cutting or modifying the car.

[miller time]

so i have a 1967 440 block sitting at the machine shop, apparently its decked and already 30 over even though me and my buddy i got it from think its stock, o well, when it gets hot tanked were going to go inspect it, really dont like the machine shop anymore. but i got the brake pedal assembly in and painted, along with the dash, steering column, which i beefed up all the mounting bolts atleast 2 sizes and parking brake assembly, and i got the steering box bolted down with large grade 8 bolts.
still not sure what to do next on the car.
 
any ideas on what to do next?
itll be like a month if the other block is good till i get to build my engine, im just building the car so i can drive it, nothing else for now, skipping all of the interior things that aren't used, like carpet and door panels, and no trim or anything on the outside of the car, it will all be done later, its just alot faster, easier, and easier on my already looted wallet, if i push off what i can until it drives.

[hemi-hampton]

Did the Machine shop check to see if block was good before they machined it?  Don't understand whats going on? Get the next block Magnafluxed. LEON.


P.S. A cracked freeze plug would not render a block useless?

[Lord Warlock]

Part of the reason why many of us say bodywork, is because it is one of the few things you can work on yourself, over a long period of time, a panel at a time if necessary, and for most of it, you really don't need to be a pro at it, by the time you get to the body lines you would have gained experience enough to attempt it.  I'm still not happy with about 4 inches of the body line on mine, but decided to live with it and move on as it was holding me back from the rest.  I figured sometime in the future i'd be able to afford a replacement panel here or there. 

I can understand putting it off for later, but you really have to have a good foundation to build the rest up from, and covering up problem areas for later will usually bite you, it'll never be cheaper to fix than it is right now, trust me, I waited 30 years to do mine, and i've spent more on trim than i spent on the entire car.  Heck, the two wheels i just bought for the rear cost more than i paid for the whole car initially. 

Organize the project, identify what areas WILL need work,  Identify approximately how long it will take to do each sub project portion, then decide what parts you want to work on first.  Go to the hardest part of each piece, and work out from that spot, that way it only gets easier as you go.  (comical) The main thing is to work on a piece at a time, and to attempt to make progress on it each time.  Eventually you'll get it to where you're happy with it.  Don't get rushed, as long as you have a place to store it, and you don't depend on it for daily transportation there isn't a need to rush anything.  It sounds like you're already working on the motor section, if it were me, I'd be sandblasting, grinding, and cleaning any rust in and around the engine bay.  If any areas need to be cut out and repaired, now is the time to do it, BEFORE you put a block back into the engine bay.  I'd also clean off every suspension part, I'd take the crossmember out and grind it clean, primer and paint it (spray cans work fine for these parts, or a can of paint and a brush)  I'd also focus on removal and update of the front brakes, spindles, rotors, sway bars etc.  Taking the front fenders off is simple once you get the grill out.  Also, Once the engine is done, make sure you paint the block before you drop it in place, putting in a grungy motor will only aggravate you later. 

There is a joy that can be had by owning an unusual or rare car, and the more you do yourself the more satisfaction you'll get out of driving it.  But getting one back in shape from a basic shell can be a LOOOONG drawn out process, or it can be an all consuming driving force to get it done as soon as possible, in which it takes over every weekend, every spare minute for months or years.  I've been lucky in that I could always put one project aside and work on a different one....like one that didn't need any bodywork, or one that shouldn't need much mechanical work.  Then go back to the first project when I'd gotten ready to start again. 

Good luck, and welcome back,  I've stepped aside for 5 years or more before, but it will never get done if you don't actually work on it or take it somewhere to get it done.  And some parts such as body and paint can be gawdawfully expensive to pay someone else to do it, so it makes sense to try to do it yourself if its possible.  I've done all the work on mine myself so far,  but its reaching a point now that i can take it elsewhere to have stuff done I'd prefer not to do, I just tried to get as many of the parts i'd need ahead of time, when I could afford it, or work on parts that i could do the work myself when i couldn't afford it. 

[Lord Warlock]

I agree with Leon,  a cracked freeze plug or two (three or eight for that matter) shouldn't mean the block is ruined, in fact, that is what the freeze plug is designed to do, fail when water freezes inside the motor, to keep it from cracking the block itself.  I've had a chevy motor that lost a whole side of two piston walls when the freeze plugs didn't come out when they should have, and didn't break either.  (that was the last time i ever did a full engine swap, swore off doing it ever again, only now i should have mine removed and rebuilt) You should be able to have a shop tank the motor and clean out most of the passages, and magnaflux it, the only time you need to replace it is if the block itself is cracked or split open and it can't be repaired.  440s are pretty stout and can put up with a LOT of abuse and nature.  Mine's survived the same conditions that killed the camaro project (chevy motor mentioned above) the charger and 440 were sitting 5 feet in front of the camaro when one motor froze, and cracked, and the other did just fine.