Almost lost the car today...almost

[Dino]

I was driving into work this morning, thought I'd tie up some loose ends from the past week.  I'm on a 55 mph two lane road, doing the speed limit.  I come to a 3 point intersection with great visibility and just as I get there, some douche in a big suv turns into the road in front of me.  I put both feet on the brakes and yanked the wheel narrowly avoiding him.  Lucky for me there was nobody coming the opposite way, something that would not be the case on a week day.  The car fishtailed twice before I stopped it, sitting sideways on the road.  I planted my foot on the gas to go after him (the driver realized what he/she did and hightailed it out of there) but of course the car just sat there spinning its wheels.  I quickly realized that whatever happens once I catch up it would probably end with me behind bars so I pulled off the road into a small sub and just sat there for a minute.

My brakes locked up right away and the car felt like it was going to stop until I felt all 4 tires sliding over the asphalt.  They are 225's (or 215's I forget) on 14 inch magnums and the tires were still cold as I had just left. 

I realize that the mass of the car is always an issue in a panic stop but to be honest, the car wouldn't have slid so much if I had bigger tires on there so I need to get this done asap instead of messing around with power options.  This car was not meant to be on friggin' bicycle tires!

I'm gonna need a set of 15x7's and a set of 15x8's with the correct backspacing but I'm not sure what to get yet.  I like the Cragar SS but I don't want to mess with unilugs.  If anyone has any ideas I'm open to them.  I may even go with black steelies for now, I'm not sure.

For all of you reading this that don't quite know how your car would react in a panic stop, don't do like me and wait to find out in real life situations.  Go to a deserted road/parking lot/whatever and find out!  This could've turned out pretty badly and I'm glad I'm still here to be a pain in your sides.   

[1974dodgecharger]

Was it wet out? I know Grand Rapids got a major flood.....other than that yeah wider tires do help don't know why people don't like them......


Other than that yeah big SUV drivers feel like the bigger person so they feel safer and do what they want on the roads.....

[71green go]

Glad you and your car are fine!.......I agree on bigger tires...I just put 275/60/15 on rear and 245/60/15 on front BFG's ....and I bought drilled and slotted rotors for the front...hopefully it will help a bit.

[Dino]

It wasn't wet but it's cold and damp.  I foolishly figured anyone could spot an 18 foot long white yacht coming down the road but nooooooooooo....


275/60 rear and 235/60 front were my inital choices.  I may want 245 up front but I need to check wath sidewall ratios they come with as I love the stance the 235/275 combo gives me.

I still need to install my front disc kit but today once more proved that when drum brakes are in good working order they do stop the car.  The sliding would've happened with any brake system...except abs.

[charge69]

Sounds like a close one for you and your Charger!  Glad it worked out and I agree a 235/275 stance looks real nice. I am not sure about now but you could get Cragars with 4 1/2" specific lug spacing and not have to use unilugs from Jeg's or Summit, I cannot remember which now. You might have to go to a 15" wheel, though. Look for a 15x7 and a 15x8 wheel.

[Baldwinvette77]

Sounds like an awesome save  , and sounds like your car was trying to keep you outta trouble 

[ODZKing]

Eeek!     had a similar incident only 2 lane at a "T".  No stop for me but the other did.  They pulled out in front of me.  I found probably the worst thing I can do with my 67 is brake and steer.  I am better off simply trying to steer around.  Between drums all around, the power brakes that lock if you breathe on them heavily I'd never stop anyway.
Glad things turned out the way they did for you.
Amazingly enough, I drive my Charger very differently than my everyday ride.  I am ALWAYS looking twice at intersections and such. Get's scary sometimes but I always told my kids, I'm not worried about your actions, it's the OTHER jackass's on the road that concern me.  

[b5blue]

I've been "watching these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/190827110418?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:VRI&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2661
  What do you think?
I'm glad your OK Dino! My motto is always "running gear first!" with brakes at the top of that list.   

[twodko]

Damn Dino ! Glad you're OK. FYI before we restored our Charger we restore a 69 Chevelle w/383 stroker. It had a disk brake conversion and ran/ stopped very well..........until one time I did have to make a panic stop. The ass end came around most riki tik. Turned out the proportioning valve was not providing enough back pressure to the rear Brakes. Adjusted the valve and no more ass around tea kettle so to speak.
Had the same thing happen with the Charger so I drive it as safely and defensively I can until I can afford the disk brake conversion. I'm hyper alert now about keeping a lot of space between me and the car ahead of me.
Not much we can do about asshats driving like they own the road so we have be mucho vigilante. 

[c00nhunterjoe]

I'm a fan of the american racing torque thrusts. The polished outer lip with gun metal grey spokes. I think they look awesome on mopars. 275/60/15 out back and 245/60/15 up front

[Indygenerallee]

I know all about "bicycle tires" on Mopars, My grandfather had a 66 Satelitte vert with a built 413, well I had to drive it and i had made my rounds and decided to head back into town, there is a Chevy dealership on the outskirts of town and I figured I would turn there and show the Chevy guys what a Mopar would do... "Big mistake" I pull out and decide I will get it a little sideways, well let's say when I mashed the go pedal it got ALOT sideways facing oncoming traffic sideways..  after I realized I was not dead and had not shit my pants I quickly matted it to the floor again to listen to those old 14" bias ply's scream turning me the "correct" direction!!! Few days later grandpa asked what happened out at the Chevy dealership! I said I about shit my pants.... 

[tan top]

  glad  you & the charger are ok   

[Fred]

Glad to hear both you and the car a safe Dino. And I'm very pleased you came to your senses and didn't go after the driver. Not only might you have ended up in the police station as you say but you might have ended up having the accident you'd just been able to avoid. And then you and the Charger would both be worse off.

Consider not only new tyres but first and foremost front disc brakes.  An absolute must have in my opinion.

[Dino]

Thanks guys, I'm glad to still be here.  I could've been hurt without having crumple zones or a decent seat belt in there but I was lucky and had room to maneuver, this would've ended up in a serious crash had it been morning rush hour.  The car would've been totaled had I not yanked the wheel, no doubt about that one. 

I was wondering about the pressure ratio between front and back.  I reacted in this situation so I don't know if the car fishtailed because it's got a long butt and because of my actions, or if the fronts locked up sooner than the rears causing the rear to try and pass the front.   

In any case, new wheels and tires are a must.  My disc brake kit will be installed at the same time, I have it so why not use it.  I also have the GM type combo valve which no doubt will be an improvement over the stock one. 

Neal those wheels look great!  I looked and found those rims by the same seller for $579, not too bad.  I'd likely put Cooper Cobra's on them though.  I hear a lot of complaints about BFG on a driver. 

I'm now contemplating the new vectors as well.  I wonder how they'd match my car.  Any of these wheels would probably look great on mine with a satin black center that goes along with the rump stripe, which will be replaced with a satin '70 stripe.  It'll also match the vinyl top and the satin black front spoiler and the future V21 treatment.

[b5blue]

I have concerns on wet handling also, my Cherokee has nice big 235/75R-15" Daytons on it that are not worth crap on a wet road. Avoiding rear wheel spin from my mighty 190HP 6 cyl. 5 speed (  ) in the rain tells me in your situation I'd most likely wrecked AND flipped to shiny side down!

[BrianShaughnessy]

Usually the rears lock up before the front causing reduced steering control.    There is no real proportioning on a all drum system.  

It was a different world back in the 60s.   Drums might have been adequate.   IMHO they only belong on a 90+ point resto trailer queen anymore.  

Get the front disks on... if you upgrade to 15,  16, 17 or whatever wheel / tire combo that's great too.   A properly biased system will help alleviate rear drum lockup.    Even then,  upgrading to single piston caliper disks only brings you into the 70s.  

At least you and the car are OK to fight traffic another day.  

I'm kinda reminded of the Titanic...   either steer or stop...  but don't try both at the same time.

[green69rt]

Think about this, in most climates the early morning is when dew settles out of the air.  One of the absolute worst driving situations is a barely wet road that has a light amount of oil from passing cars (either from the exhaust or leaks.)   This gets really bad if there has not been a hard rain to wash the oil off.   Most people don't realize how poor traction is under these conditions.    Untill the pavement heats up from traffic or the sun it's slick.  Tires etc will help but for our old cars without TC or anti-lock brakes it all depends on the driver.  Be careful out there.....

[1970Moparmann]

People are always in a freak'in rush now-a-days.   I was absolutely amazed last time I went to the Mopar Nationals how people give ZERO respect to old cars.  I must have been cut off 3 times a day.......

When I'm driving my truck, alone, and some stupid ass douchbag does something stupid, I sure as hell let them know.

[resq302]

Think about this, in most climates the early morning is when dew settles out of the air.  One of the absolute worst driving situations is a barely wet road that has a light amount of oil from passing cars (either from the exhaust or leaks.)   This gets really bad if there has not been a hard rain to wash the oil off.   Most people don't realize how poor traction is under these conditions.    Untill the pavement heats up from traffic or the sun it's slick.  Tires etc will help but for our old cars without TC or anti-lock brakes it all depends on the driver.  Be careful out there.....

I agree.  Even with new tires no my F150, I still slip and slide occasionally getting on ramps for the highway and going around curves.  I also encounter this a lot due to my work schedule and being up at 5 am.  Its actually better if it is raining vs. the light drizzle or the dew that settled down on the road overnight.  That seems to be the right combination to equal loss of traction for some reason.  Very similar to when there is that light dusting of snow vs trying to drive in a couple inches of snow.  You seem to get better traction with the couple inches of snow vs. the dusting up to the first inch.

[JB400]

Glad to hear this hair raising experience turned out for the better.   If you're reading this, you should be putting discs on the car

[resq302]

Don't need to.  Came with them from the factory!   

[twenty mike mike]

Mopar Action had a two part series about retrofitting ABS to the rear wheels in the October and December 2012 issues. That would be more useful than a change in tire size or brake type. A locked wheel is a locked wheel, however fancy your binders.

If I could put my hands on the issues, I'd scan them for you, but I'm sure plenty of other people here have them.

[1974dodgecharger]

Mopar Action had a two part series about retrofitting ABS to the rear wheels in the October and December 2012 issues. That would be more useful than a change in tire size or brake type. A locked wheel is a locked wheel, however fancy your binders.

If I could put my hands on the issues, I'd scan them for you, but I'm sure plenty of other people here have them.

Abs better than say disc if one had to decide?

[twenty mike mike]

Mopar Action claims you can do the ABS for less than $60, so it really shouldn't have to be one or the other.

[Cooter]

It wasn't wet but it's cold and damp.  I foolishly figured anyone could spot an 18 foot long white yacht coming down the road but nooooooooooo.... Common misconception when it comes to daily driving these cars. It's not that they didn't see you, they most likely did, they just didn't care. many are looking for a payday today.


275/60 rear and 235/60 front were my inital choices.  I may want 245 up front but I need to check wath sidewall ratios they come with as I love the stance the 235/275 combo gives me.Sorry, but coming from one who was driving a buddy's Charger with 295/50/15" on the back, and 235/60/15" on the front with four wheel drum brakes the other week, bigger tires is not really gonna help you from sliding as much. Once rubber gets gooey, forget it.

I still need to install my front disc kit but today once more proved that when drum brakes are in good working order they do stop the car.  The sliding would've happened with any brake system...except abs.Drum brakes are alot of the problem. It doens't take as much pressure to lock them up as front disc/four wheel discs. The margin isn't great on pressure, but sometimes, that enough in a panic stop, without ABS.

[Cooter]

Mopar Action had a two part series about retrofitting ABS to the rear wheels in the October and December 2012 issues. That would be more useful than a change in tire size or brake type. A locked wheel is a locked wheel, however fancy your binders.

If I could put my hands on the issues, I'd scan them for you, but I'm sure plenty of other people here have them.

Abs better than say disc if one had to decide?

If you knew how problematic those systems are, you'd think twice. Ask any late 90's early 2000's Ford truck with RWAB about the system lasting for about the first time the light comes on and system is disabled. ABS brakes isn't a "catch all" for improper, or just plain ol bad luck when driving. You drive 'em daily, you takes your chances. Sooner or later, you play the odds enough, you will lose. Just do yourself a favor and insure the hell outta the car. That way, when your odds run out, you will walk away with a big, fat, roll in your pocket.

[BrianShaughnessy]

Mopar Action had a two part series about retrofitting ABS to the rear wheels in the October and December 2012 issues. That would be more useful than a change in tire size or brake type. A locked wheel is a locked wheel, however fancy your binders.

If I could put my hands on the issues, I'd scan them for you, but I'm sure plenty of other people here have them.

Mopar Action claims you can do the ABS for less than $60, so it really shouldn't have to be one or the other.

The rear end involved with this is a 9.25 that had fittings for the sensor and a tone ring.     Finding the parts to retrofit that on once that particular set of problems was already overcome could be done on the cheap.   If somebody is starting with nothing and decides to try to use a 9.25 more power to them but most people here have a 8.75 to begin with and might upgrade to a Dana if the other goes BoOM!

Retrofitting ABS onto a 8.75 or Dana is another matter.

[bill440rt]

Wow, scary stuff.
Glad to hear you and the car are OK, Dino.

I too read that Mopar Action ABS article. I was intrigued by it. Lots of creativity.

[Patronus]

Glad she's alright old boy! Coulda put the RMS in and just gone around..?

[Mike DC]

Wow Dino, I'm glad you're okay.  

--------


Rear drum brakes = poop.  

Front drum brakes = steaming poop.



From what I've seen of brake retrofits, the improvement that comes with discs is greater than just the fade resistance.  In theory the drums are fine as long as you can lock up all four wheels, but in real world usage I think the discs usually end up getting it done sooner & better.  

The 14" wheels are another factor but the car was gonna skid anyway.  A 14" wheel with a hi-perf tire is probably gonna do better than a 15" wheel with a ghetto-fabulous economy tire. 

[preid]

Dirk,
Sorry to hear about this!  Glad it turned out ok, though.  Nice save    

Regarding you looking for a new set of tires/wheels.  I think I told you, I just recently put on a new set (tires/wheels) myself.  The set I took off only had about 2K miles, be happy to let you have either the set or a pair for the fronts at minimal cost, not looking to make any money on these.  Send me a PM if interested.

[Dino]

Thanks for the concerns and brake wisdom guys, much appreciated.  I'm still enjoying every minute of my charger, it's sitting outside right now looking mean.   

I let my guard down and assumed that person would see 18 feet of white car but that was wrong.  I'm fully expecting ninja's trying to run me off the road once more so I'll be fine.   

I posted a thread about wheels in the wheel section so if you have a minute please look at the one I posted and share your thoughts.  I am open to other models but due to the driving I do, on the crappy roads we have, I am sticking with 15" rims.

Paul, I'm sending you a pm.

[RIDELIKEHELL]

  I just read this! I would've been a nervous wreck and wanted to chase the MF down as I have done that b4. So glad you made it Dino...

[model maker]

 I am glad both you & the Charger are ok. I want to say this, To be seen, run with your headlights ON during the day. It does make your car stand out that's why daytime running lights are now standard  on new cars & trucks. The thing that bugs me is those people who just refuse to use the headlights in rain/fog and their excuse always seems to be this " why do I need my lights on,? I can see just fine"  the lights are not for the driver to see but to make other drivers see YOU ! you take a look the next time it rains or storms and notice the  cars without lights on hidden in the crowd of cars that DO. the car without lights is completely hidden & hard to even see especially in your mirrors that have to do double duty because of fogged up windows that cars get in cold weather. If I had a classic charger, you better believe my lights would be on & maybe the hi beams during the bright sunny day. if someone gets irritated because of your hi beams, screw em but at least THEY Saw YOU !

[dyslexic teddybear]

Agree on rainy conditions, but perhaps you do not realize....on sunny days, running headlights cuts your brake/turn lights visibility. In the sun, it's hard enough to make out when the brake light is on or off.....having the tail light on just makes that worse.

For that reason I never run headlights on in bright sun.

All other times

I am glad both you & the Charger are ok. I want to say this, To be seen, run with your headlights ON during the day. It does make your car stand out that's why daytime running lights are now standard  on new cars & trucks. The thing that bugs me is those people who just refuse to use the headlights in rain/fog and their excuse always seems to be this " why do I need my lights on,? I can see just fine"  the lights are not for the driver to see but to make other drivers see YOU ! you take a look the next time it rains or storms and notice the  cars without lights on hidden in the crowd of cars that DO. the car without lights is completely hidden & hard to even see especially in your mirrors that have to do double duty because of fogged up windows that cars get in cold weather. If I had a classic charger, you better believe my lights would be on & maybe the hi beams during the bright sunny day. if someone gets irritated because of your hi beams, screw em but at least THEY Saw YOU !

[Cooter]

Dino, I was driving my Dart home from the shop the other day. Ok, things are going ok...I'm doing my 55-60 MPH @3600 RPM in the "Slow lane" and this SUV passes me with the tiniest chick driving and looking in her rearview mirror talking to what appeared to be kids in the back. I'm thinking "oh boy, glad she's going round me"...A friend is driving about three lengths in front of her in the laft lane. I see out the corner of my eye, a State Trooper on the side of the road with a rollback picking up a car to the right. Lights on the truck flashing as well as on the Police car.

This dumbass chick decides about 6 car lengths from this, to whip out and pass my buddy who I guess wasn't driving at least 20 MPH OVER the speed limit and THEN, she sees the Cop. Slams on the brakes and I see tire smoke. She has to completely STOP in the road, let my buddy who I could see through his pickup's rear window, Laughing like hell and flippin her the bird, me and two other cars pass before she could move. By that time, I looked in my rearview and see the Trooper Getting out of his crusier and motioning for her to pull over. With the influx of "northern" driver's here in my area, this has become the norm. People driving like idiots when it comes to speeding. In a damn big ass hurry for nothing. Like 10 min. they save on the road will save their job or something? Get their dumbasses up earlier.

In the same trip home I had some other douch try and ride up my ass. Well, I remembered what I think it was Topcat said to do when people tailgate instead of "Brake checking" them. I simply slowed down and when he whipped his little shitbox out as if he was pissed off, I simply STABBED down on all 505 Cubic inches of raw, loud, Nitrous injected Power. Left his dumbass sitting like he was tied to a tree. Dude in the opposite lane in a truck, was laughing so hard, I could only make out his Thumbs up motion.

Point is, unfortunately, no longer can we simply go for a Pleasure drive without a care in the world. Now, we have to constantly be aware of these idiots and THEIR driving habits which will hurt US.