The clone wars.....

[b5blue]

  "Clone", as a term...What does it mean to you? What about "Tribute"? I see these terms used all the time and in many ways on all kind of cars.  I get the general concept but feel it's kinda overused so much the idea is fuzzy at best.
  Take my car, a 70 Charger, new it was a 318 but it had a 440 when I bought it. (As it had been drag race only for 8 years.) I pulled the TM-7 high rise and huge Holley and found a six pack to replace them with. Later I rebuilt the suspension with all Mopar H.D. stuff but to me it's still a 318 car WITH changes to most (If not ALL) of the running gear. My point is it's setup closely to A-12 specs ( I even have the little square spacers on the LCA bumpers.) but I cringe when others say OH it's an A-12 or R/T clone. I flat refuse to put R/T badges, stripes or any other misleading identifiers on the car and the VIN is in plain sight.
  I was just wondering what the terms mean to others here on the forum?     

[Cooter]

I think the term "Misleading Indentifiers" Is a personal thing at best. Just because it has R/T badges on it, doesn't mean anybody's "Misleading" anybody...Same thing with all those STUPID, TARDED, "Skunk stripe" kits to try and make the one of 50K Newer Challenger attempt to look different from the rest of the sheep herd. However, I just think CLone was too UN-PC at the time when cloning sheep/humans was on the radar, so some Guru of the Muscecar world came up with "Tribute" as if the originals could even hold a CANDLE to some of the "Clones/Tributes" that were supposedly built to pay some kinda stupid "Homage" to the original. You take the BEST 1966-1974 Had to offer, and I'll crush it with a plain jane "Cloned up 318 car" today.

IMO, the ONLY ONES that have a problem with the term Clone/Tribute/Whatever, are the Owners of the originals (READ PURISTS)that Prolly paid too much for it thinking it is worth it, and get frustrated when a "Cloned up 318" car with a crate engine sells for more, handles better, makes triple the HP and Torque, has an Overdrive, hooks way better, has A/C, Power seats, Steering, Etc. and gets better MPG than the original.

[Charger-Bodie]

To me the word clone in regards to a car is this: " Everything is done to the same very spec as the real one its cloning" Which means for a 68 R/T clone Charger you must have all of it . right down to the 11x3 Drums etc. The whole nine.

To me The word tribute and some of the others simply mean it has emblems and weve done whatever we want after that.

[moparstuart]

i love clones

[duanesterrr]

Clone and tribute mean the exact same thing to me and I would say they mean taking the visual/performance aspects of a car and changing them to reflect that of another car.  There are RT clones, GL clones, F&F clones, DMCL clones... etc etc etc. The list goes on.

I personally don't see why people have a problem with clones.  Its part of the hobby.  If I bought a real RT or a clone RT the only difference would be price.  Of course, at the local show you will always have that guy looking a the VIN and telling his boy "its not a real RT" but I guess I already know that don't I? 

[Homerr]

I like clones and don't have a problem with stripes or badges on non-R/T cars.  I appreciate the different levels of clones too.  If someone took the time to change out the fuel line, upgrade suspension, axle, etc. to make it more toward a factory R/T then I see much more value to that car than a 318 car with badges even if the latter is more showy.

The only thing I get annoyed with is an owner not acknowledging, or falsely advertising, the car is a clone (maybe some are too misinformed to actually know they bought a clone?).

[dyslexic teddybear]

 JMO......worth less then  

No offence is intended to anyone the puts in the time and $$$ to properly restore a rare historical type car. I can only imagine the time and effort to do it right.

But.....years ago I, like so many others, would read the stories of the incredible "one of one"/matching numbers/inspection marks......and dream of maybe someday .....going for it.

That was then. Now,I have decided it is not for me. The turning point was simply the realization that some of these cars that I admired[drooled over] were "restored" in a way that I would not do. I began to notice desirable options added to date coded/NOS type rare cars....and I'm thinking, that's just not right. I can certainly understand, it's your car, add what you want, but I drooled a little less.

And then......I read a write up of a green Hemicuda, [possibly the only modtop?] and the restorer joked "your hiding the sawsall behind your back as you are promising to the original owner of a 318 car, "to take care of his baby" or words to that affect. That...I could not do. I could not look someone in the eye, and do that. No matter how much the original interior was worth to do a correct restoration of a Hemicuda. I well know the worth of a Hemicuda VS a base Barracuda. $$$ is not the issue for me.

For all I know, it was just a joke between the author and the restorer.....but it got me thinking. Repo and NOS parts, no problem. But , every used part comes from a Mopar the can never be saved. I am realistic, all of them can not be saved. Collisions and rust take their toll, again, understandable. Unpopular models-base models that are worth more in parts....I'm realistic.

I love Mopars. All of them. Survivors......  I'm a purist. Sure, I'm interested in a "gold" Daytona.....just as interested in a 318 Charger survivor. Race cars, modified, stock....even trucks.

Clone......  

Don't like the name tribute much.....for me the context is like "collectors edition". I like the concept.....just not the name. JMO.

Build it how you want. Enjoy. It's that simple.

I HATE anything misrepresented.

If you can not be proud of what you are doing[feel the need to hide it] you should not be doing it.

[odcics2]

 

[A383Wing]

i love clones

especially green ones that someone sawed the tops off off 

[moparstuart]

i love clones

especially green ones that someone sawed the tops off off 

  and that is what i would do with your wifes car too

[ws23rt]

This a very good topic that needs to be revisited. Terms that we use to describe things or people seem to change frequently (mentally challenged, Weight impaired,minor attracted, etc). Not meaning to get political but to express a point that we don't want to offend. In this case cars can be altered and maybe passed off as something they are not for financial gain. Sure they have been and no one likes getting scammed.
So many cool cars are gone forever and the number of folks that want them increases. (Ka ching) I personally like the term clone. It leaves little doubt about the owners intent with the car. It is also true that some clones are better that the original ever was and one can drive them without risking the loss of yet another of the vanishing originals. If you think about it an all original car that is restored to all original spec is really a clone of it's former self. The only real originals are preserved not restored.

[Cooter]

As for the profiteering off said "clones/tributes"?? Well, I've said it before, and I'll say it again.....
Buyer BEWARE. A FOOL and his/her money are soon parted. While this site is a GREAT place to help deter one from getting hosed, Personal responsibility comes to mind here.

There's WAYYYYYY too much info out there and WAY too many different ways to spot a "Fake" (Notice I used the term fake here), for people to try and help the stupid that get hosed. No reason for it. If I can find a forum dealing with FORD PINTOS/MAVERICKS, then surely someone looking to drop 200K on a "Fake" Daytona can find this forum and get the answers to his/her questions.

[hatersaurusrex]

I plan on dropping a 440 in mine, upgrading the suspension, possibly a six-pack (in a '68, GASP) but I don't think I'll ever put R/T badges on it.

The reasoning is simple:  The people who know the difference between a real R/T and a 'tribute/clone' will not be impressed by the badges, and the people who can't tell the difference aren't worth impressing in the first place.   

[cdr]

mine will have R/T emblems because I like them,will NOT say it is a factory R/T,IT IS A CDR/T 

[A383Wing]

i love clones

especially green ones that someone sawed the tops off off 

  and that is what i would do with your wifes car too

If I had the money, I would do that as well....too late now

Bryan

[billssuperbird]

Clone hear

[odcics2]

Maybe a term that should be considered in this line of conversation should be "hot rod".  

When you take a 318 Charger, add the suspension goodies, 440 or hemi, 4.56 gears, lower it down.... guess what?

You have a Hot Rod!   (not a clone)  


Hot rodding has been done for years on all kinds of cars.  I did it on my '68 Charger, back when I bought it from the original owner in 1972.
If your car was all stock and original back then - you sucked!!   You HAD to modify it!!  I don't remember ANYONE that left them original!!

But, I never said it was an R/T...    Nor was it misrepresented when I sold it years later.   It was just a warmed over Charger!    

And my first car ended up wrapped around a tree in mid Ohio a few years later...      

[billssuperbird]

I like muscle car

[odcics2]

I like muscle car

Yes, but a muscle car can be bought from the factory...

IMO - I consider a hot rod a car that is owner modified to his, or her, liking.     

[Indygenerallee]

IMO as long as it is built right and looks badass I don't care. I would rather have either of Dane's Daytona "clones" over a real Daytona anyday just because they are different and you can drive them and not be afraid to wreck a piece of history. I am a car guy not a "numbers matching or it's worthless" type of guy.

[b5blue]

  Good discussion, I can already the terms have different meanings to different people. I'm old school so more inclined to agree with odcics2 POV. I'd have bought my car with any engine, the six pack and other parts just seemed to come my way when I was looking for replacements. After months of looking for a beater I bought a D-150 van with a 400 and all HD running gear to fix up. Helping my brother look for a Challenger I stumbled on to the Charger behind my friends shop. (So I was not even thinking I could ever find a good B body, much less a Charger I could buy.)  So for me there was no intent to "clone" but that label would fit had I intentionally done so.  
 As I don't buy and sell muscle cars or "collect" anything I really do not care so much what others do or don't do if they are honest. To me a real true "survivor" is the very most valuable of the old cars regardless of equipment. But there is ANOTHER misused term to consider!  

[charge69]

Make your Charger or other MOPAR like you want it to be. I have absolutely no problem with someone making a "tribute" or "clone" car as that is their choice. Just don't pretend it is a real R/T if it is not when asked.

[lukedukem]

I'm confused as to what my car would be considered then. I mean that when I saw deathproof that's what I wanted my car to look like. But I didn't put a roll cage in it or actually make it deathproof. I kept the original interior and big ole steering wheel. So is mine a clone or tribute. It doesn't bother me either way. 25% of people who approach me don't know the movie anyway or drive angry movie. One things for sure. I have one. 

Luke

[BB1]

FIRE!

[lukedukem]

Oh those clone wars. Lol.

[Cooter]

I'm confused as to what my car would be considered then. I mean that when I saw deathproof that's what I wanted my car to look like. But I didn't put a roll cage in it or actually make it deathproof. I kept the original interior and big ole steering wheel. So is mine a clone or tribute. It doesn't bother me either way. 25% of people who approach me don't know the movie anyway or drive angry movie. One things for sure. I have one. 

Luke

You wouldn't have that problem if you put an "01" and Confed. flag on the roof. 

[lukedukem]

I'm confused as to what my car would be considered then. I mean that when I saw deathproof that's what I wanted my car to look like. But I didn't put a roll cage in it or actually make it deathproof. I kept the original interior and big ole steering wheel. So is mine a clone or tribute. It doesn't bother me either way. 25% of people who approach me don't know the movie anyway or drive angry movie. One things for sure. I have one. 

Luke

You wouldn't have that problem if you put an "01" and Confed. flag on the roof. 

Very funny Cooter. 

I thought about doing it with white like that one with the sunroof in the thread about top generals. My cousin wants me to do a gloss 01 on the side. But it's staying like this for awhile.

Luke.

[pettybird]

and you can drive them and not be afraid to wreck a piece of history..

Still rather drive one of the 'birds than the clone Daytona.  Dane makes beautiful cars, but he'll have more into the drivetrain of the new blue car than we have into our Marty car--clones aren't always cheap. 


If you have a "real" car, and someone copies it, it's a fake.  If you own the copy, it's a tribute, a hot rod, a custom, etc. 

[bill440rt]

I like the cars on either side of the camp.
I can appreciate the time & dedication it takes to do a bone-stock resto on a correct car, AND appreciate the car for what it is. Contrary to some belief, it is NOT an easy task and perhaps the hardest of all to accomplish.

On the flip side if an owner builds (or has a car built) to his liking who really cares? The majority of "muscle cars" today likely falls into this category. If that's what makes the owner happy, and as long as it's not misrepresented some point down the line, then so be it.

At the top end of the scale for me are survivors, the "untouched" cars that still retain much of their originality. They are only original once.

[odcics2]

All good points... 

[A383Wing]

Then I got somethin' for everyone...a couple survivors, a car built the way I wanted it, and a clone...

Bryan  (I'm poor)

[Baldwinvette77]

one guy told me cloning a car was when you took the vin, and other peices from one car (like a rust bucket or write-off) and slapped them on another car in better condition to recreate the totaled car, and if you took something like a coronet and built it like a superbee, but kept the coronet vin, it's just a tribute  idunno, it made sense to me, just my.. er. his* 

[ws23rt]

I think the term clone comes from the need to have something other than fake as a way to describe what we are working on. Fake to most of us means deception. If one uses only the vin from one car to identify another what is their intent? Let's say the car is done and at a show. Is there a sign saying warning the vin they see is not what they may expect it to be. What possible motive could there be for doing that other than to represent that car as being something it is not. Further let's say we found a pile of rust with a fender tag on top that is one of one hemi- etc. Lets build a car and put that vin tag on it. Is that the car that the tag indicates? Sort of like the old tale about the hammer that has been in the family for years. It has had the handle replaced many times and the head a few. Is it the old family hammer? We know that many of these cars have gone on to make new ones and if we find an old tag it should not pretend to be the car it came from. The cars that are a real mess become a tough call which comes back to the tough call. How much metal is old and how much is new? For me the only original car is one that has not been repaired. That leads to another gray zone. The real bottom line is are you telling a lie. You are the one that knows.

[Budnicks]

I like the cars on either side of the camp.
I can appreciate the time & dedication it takes to do a bone-stock resto on a correct car, AND appreciate the car for what it is. Contrary to some belief, it is NOT an easy task and perhaps the hardest of all to accomplish.

On the flip side if an owner builds (or has a car built) to his liking who really cares? The majority of "muscle cars" today likely falls into this category. If that's what makes the owner happy, and as long as it's not misrepresented some point down the line, then so be it.

At the top end of the scale for me are survivors, the "untouched" cars that still retain much of their originality. They are only original once.

I agree once you do a restoration, or a bunch of body parts replacements, fenders, quarters, roof, interior, engine, trans etc., it's not original any more anyway, it's now restored, so isn't that sort of a clone too or reproduction of the original at best ??  my they're only original, one time !! I like them all & as long as they are done tastefully, it's the owners choice, it's not a fake Mopar, it's just not factory original...

[ws23rt]

The term fake is what someone other than the owner uses when the car is less than original and there is an attempt to pass it off being authentic. Can't think of anything except money being the motive. We all know what we are doing and what we have. A very few out there are trolling for suckers. A sad life they live. The up side is we are better informed and way out number them.

[A383Wing]

one guy told me cloning a car was when you took the vin, and other peices from one car (like a rust bucket or write-off) and slapped them on another car in better condition to recreate the totaled car,

that is just a tad bit on the illegal side...whoever that guy was needs to be slapped