Gen 3 Hemi swap total cost?

[sixty-niner]

Hi guys, I have always wanted a 5.7/6.1 hemi in my 69 charger, I just dont know if its worth the cost at this time in my life. I have a 400 block in it with headers , ported 906 heads, cam, 800 eddy carb, rpm performer intake, exhaust, and a rebuilt 4 speed overdrive from a 70s van. Some say if your on a budget (which I am) why not build a 451? I am half way there, I can build it, get the machine work done and any milling at my community college where I am a faculty member. I think I could get the 451 built by myself and students for under 2K where i am not sure what it would cost to get the 5.7 swap done.

What is realistic budget for a full 5.7 swap using my manual trans?
I want my car for the street and track.

Is my 2K budget realistic for my 451?

any input from those more experienced would greatly be appreciated.
thanks

[Homerr]

Dunno the total cost, but have you looked around here:

http://www.bpeusa.com/61LHemi.asp

[Cooter]

Depends on how much power you wanna make out of that 451, how long you want it to live. I dunno if I trust a community college for my engine building/machine work, but if that's your hook-up go for it.

I don't think your 451 will last very long with only $2K, but I've seen stranger things happen. I can tell you RIGHT NOW, you won't get a 5.7/6.1 swapped in for less/same than $2K....

More like around $5-7K...By the time you buy a used engine, and all the wiring to make it run, then hack up your car to get that HUGE Mercedes transmission in it, then find out you need all kindsa crazy adpaters that cost huge coin, then, then, then.....While It may sound "trick" to run those newer Hemi's, they are like Fuel Injection Vs a good 'ole carb. Hands down the carb will win every single time due to COST.

[sixty-niner]

How much power?  as much as I can I guess, without compromising drive-ability Ideally I would like around 500 at the crank if at all possible.  the community college thing is more for me to learn so even if it doesn't last as long as I would like, I would build it and learn how to do it.  Plus it will be fun and cost effective. 

[Indygenerallee]

I Have bought a complete 5.7 Hemi out of a Ram with a 545RFE 5 speed with 3000 miles for $1000.00 it was a killer Craigslist deal! I bought the hot rod wiring harness from Hotwireauto.com and had them program the PCM that came with my Hemi to remove the VATS system and disable the EGR function. $1200.00 for the harness and PCM reprogram 5 wires and the engine runs best harness I have ever seen. I bought a set of B body 5.7 Hemi conversion headers $800.00
Milodon 5.7 B body oil pan and pickup tube $250.00. The engine mounts from Schumacer. Walbro fuel pump and use a Corvette fuel filter as it has a regulator built in. In my opinion this is the best of both worlds I wanted something I can jump in and drive anywhere and get good MPG while making good power as I can download different tunes off my Diablo Trinity tuner and control any parameter of the engine.

[Indygenerallee]

http://hotwireauto.com/ Here is hotwireauto's website and as far as the 545RFE there is trans tunnel mods needed but it's nothing that's all that major.

[Indygenerallee]

100_1136 by indygenerallee1

5.7 B body conversion TTI Ceramic coated polished headers, work of art!

[JB400]

You're best bet at getting a hemi cheap would be at a salvage auction.  Make friends with a salvage yard owner that goes to these auctions, and you should be able to buy a totaled out Ram, Charger, Magnum, or 300 fairly cheap.  How cheap, 

Unless you're lucky like Indy, that would be your best bet

[thedodgeboys]

Hi guys, I have always wanted a 5.7/6.1 hemi in my 69 charger, I just dont know if its worth the cost at this time in my life. I have a 400 block in it with headers , ported 906 heads, cam, 800 eddy carb, rpm performer intake, exhaust, and a rebuilt 4 speed overdrive from a 70s van. Some say if your on a budget (which I am) why not build a 451? I am half way there, I can build it, get the machine work done and any milling at my community college where I am a faculty member. I think I could get the 451 built by myself and students for under 2K where i am not sure what it would cost to get the 5.7 swap done.

What is realistic budget for a full 5.7 swap using my manual trans?
I want my car for the street and track.

Is my 2K budget realistic for my 451?

any input from those more experienced would greatly be appreciated.
thanks

Your 2 k would cover the harness and ecu from Hotwire if your lucky
1200 for headers
300 for mounts
1000 efi fuel pump and lines
1200 new bell housing and flywheel
800 oil pan
Now add in your used motor (2k to 5k) you can hit 10 k pretty quick

I would stay with the big block Unless you really want the new motor.

[Cooter]

Bout the only things I can see inthe newer swap is the "Oh look, another late model "truck" Hemi in an older Musclecar" thing, or the "Oh look, another new Hemi in a musclecar getting 2-3 More MPG's than the older Big block did" thing.

Stick with the 451, you and your wallet will thank you. MPG will only bother you @500HP if you allow it to. Just think of the "Smiles to the gallon".

[SRT-440]

And if your worried about dealing with a carb and tuning it, you can always slap on a EFI kit on the big block ($2000) and it will prolly run as smooth as the new motor. Just a thought. 

[Indygenerallee]

Your 2 k would cover the harness and ecu from Hotwire if your lucky
1200 for headers
300 for mounts
1000 efi fuel pump and lines
1200 new bell housing and flywheel
800 oil pan
Now add in your used motor (2k to 5k) you can hit 10 k pretty quick

I don't know where you got these prices but they are high! I did not pay anywhere near those prices on anything listed for my Hemi swap.

[sixty-niner]

yeah my budget would not be 2k for a 5.7, but for the 451 only, I am thinking the 5.7 would be a minimum of around 5K, which is a lot for a motor in my opinion. I am thinking of having a 451 in the meantime and get a 5.7 later when I can afford it.  1000 for a 5.7 is a killer deal, one I have never seen...ever.  It was like Alex's 6.1 for 2K, killer deal that one cannot pass up.  Ideally a 5.7 would be what I want.

[Indygenerallee]

1000 for a 5.7 is a killer deal, one I have never seen...ever

Your exatly right, The guy even had the receipt with the mileage and the VIN for the truck it came out of from the salvage yard in Tennesee where he bought the motor and trans back in 2007 for $5000.00, He was going to put it in a Dakota R/T and ran out of cash. Also I forgot to add if you get a PCM with or buy one for a 5.7 or 6.1 you have to have the VIN number for the vehicle it came out of so whoever programs the PCM can remove the VATS program.

[Mike DC]

1.  Figure out the total price of the 5.7L conversion.   Pull that much out of the bank.

2.  Build a 451 for the car.

3.  Put the remaining money onto a prepaid credit card labeled "gas money."   


Unless that's a hell of an expensive 451 or you drive the car a hell of a lot, you will have more fun with it this way. 

[Dino]

Sorry for the hijack but do these new hemi's actually have hemispherical combustion chambers or is it a marketing thing?

[JB400]

They have the hemi head, but a flattop like piston, at least when they first come out.

[Indygenerallee]

No the pistons are domed as well but not like the dome on a 426 Hemi!  I figured after I install a cam and with a proper tune I will be a little over 400 HP with my 5.7 which is enough for me and I believe I can get some pretty good MPG with it as well being in a Daytona.

[duanesterrr]

Sorry for the hijack but do these new hemi's actually have hemispherical combustion chambers or is it a marketing thing?

Marketing ploy all the way.

[PocketThunder]

1.  Figure out the total price of the 5.7L conversion.   Pull that much out of the bank.

2.  Build a 451 for the car.

3.  Put the remaining money onto a prepaid credit card labeled "gas money."   


Unless that's a hell of an expensive 451 or you drive the car a hell of a lot, you will have more fun with it this way. 

Best advice i have heard all day.   

[thedodgeboys]

Your 2 k would cover the harness and ecu from Hotwire if your lucky
800 for headers
200 for mounts
800 efi fuel pump and lines
1200 new bell housing and flywheel
400 oil pan
Now add in your used motor (2k to 5k) you can hit 10 k pretty quick

I don't know where you got these prices but they are high! I did not pay anywhere near those prices on anything listed for my Hemi swap.

I might be a little high(3-5K) but you get the point it ant cheep...
and lots of little stuff yet to get to complete the swap.

[Aero426]

Bout the only things I can see inthe newer swap is the "Oh look, another late model "truck" Hemi in an older Musclecar" thing, or the "Oh look, another new Hemi in a musclecar getting 2-3 More MPG's than the older Big block did" thing.

Pretty much.  

I can't see a big MPG increase at all based on my 5.7 in my 04 Ram 2500 2wd.    Plenty of power, but it is one THIRSTY hombre.  

[Bobs69]

How much power?  as much as I can I guess, without compromising drive-ability Ideally I would like around 500 at the crank if at all possible.  the community college thing is more for me to learn so even if it doesn't last as long as I would like, I would build it and learn how to do it.  Plus it will be fun and cost effective. 

Agreed.

I did mine with supervision.  The mechanic did install the crank, it HAD to be done with extra care.

[Mike DC]

I can't see a big MPG increase at all based on my 5.7 in my 04 Ram 2500 2wd.    Plenty of power, but it is one THIRSTY hombre.   

That's not exactly an equivalent vehicle though. 

The same motor would seem a lot better on gas if it was pushing a Geo Metro. 

 

[PocketThunder]

I can't see a big MPG increase at all based on my 5.7 in my 04 Ram 2500 2wd.    Plenty of power, but it is one THIRSTY hombre.   

That's not exactly an equivalent vehicle though. 

The same motor would seem a lot better on gas if it was pushing a Geo Metro. 

Sure enough there is a forum for that..  http://geometroforum.com/topic/4683473/1/

[Aero426]

I can't see a big MPG increase at all based on my 5.7 in my 04 Ram 2500 2wd.    Plenty of power, but it is one THIRSTY hombre.   

That's not exactly an equivalent vehicle though. 

It's a stripper, regular cab, 2wd with overdrive pulling nothing.     I am sure it's heavier than the Charger, but....

Best I have ever gotten on the hwy empty is 15-16.  Around town, it's 10-12.   It ain't great. 

But let's just say you pick up that 3-4 mpg in a Charger.   The payback on that will still take a LONG time. 

[Mike DC]

     
I agree it would take a long time to pay it off. 



I doubt that fuel injecting a 451 would be a great $$$/MPG payoff, but it would probably be a better payoff for the dollar than the new motor swap. 

And especially if we look at the price of the carb setup honestly.  People have a tendency to look at an EFI conversion as a totally added cost, and forget how much they were really going to spend on the carb & manifold & mechanical fuel pump system.

[Cooter]

Wiring and all the bullsh*t needed jsut to make a STOCK newer Hemi run in an older Musclecar is like what Round say $2K? By the time you put the pump in the tank and that crazy Corvette filter, etc.

Used/rebuilt carb(650-750 for 451), intake, and new Fuel pump is nowhere NEAR Fuel injection and you already had most of it.

[Aero426]

While it could be its own topic, a friend has put a MSD Atomic EFI kit on his 440 Superbird.  The 440 is lightly hotted up.  
He did it for many of the same reasons people want to install a Gen III Hemi: the cool factor, modern technology, improved mileage, etc.
He likes to drive the car and is not afraid to take it long distances.

So far, it has been a mixed bag.   Definitely not a failure, but not a rousing success either.  
There still is some sorting to do and we will see how it goes this summer.

The good:
Turn the key and it lights off instantly.  Very nice.
Installation was very simple.
It is hard to detect when looking under the hood.   It looks like a carb.

The mixed bag part:
Fuel Mileage is not improved, or even very good, even though his A/F ratio is spot on.    
Throttle response was very touchy.  I understand it has improved as the system has learned.  I have not driven it since just after install.
Fuel pump needs to be in the tank.   He experienced a vapor lock issue on the initial install.
The system is not cheap.

Where I am going with this, is that it always seems easy to go with the new fangled stuff that sounds good on paper.     But it isn't a lock that it's always going to be the improvement you want, or work right out of the box.    For what a GEN III Hemi costs, you can put that money to a lot of good use elsewhere.     If are flush with cash, hey, go for it.  

[Indygenerallee]

Wiring and all the bullsh*t needed jsut to make a STOCK newer Hemi run in an older Musclecar is like what Round say $2K? By the time you put the pump in the tank and that crazy Corvette filter, etc.

$1200 for the PCM reprogrammed and complete harness with fuse block with all connectors plug and play. The sender was $100 that a standard Walbro 55GPH fuel pump fits in ($150 fuel pump), the Corvette fuel filter with the built in regulator $45.00.

[sixty-niner]

I totally agree with AERO426, its hard to justify the cost to put 375 HP fuel injection but if you got the cash cool.  It would be more cost effective to make the 451.  I am half way there already....I think.

[Mike DC]

It is hard to detect when looking under the hood.   It looks like a carb.

That means it's a throttle-body system, which goes some way towards explaining the weak fuel efficiency and response.  Throttle-body systems are okay but the multi-port systems are better.