How long can it POSSIBLY TAKE!

[DadsCharger00]

I been on here enough to read about the troubles with paint/body guys when it comes to working on these cars. I've had my grill at the paint booth now since mid DECEMBER waiting for it to have tabs repaired and paint. Guy keeps saying "I'll get to it as soon as this is done. Should have it done by the weekend." I think I've heard this now for a solid month. So I would like to hear a few stories of the horrors of the paint and body guy trouble! May make me feel better!

[chargerboy69]

When I dropped off my 69 Super Bee I was told it should be ready in 4 weeks.

It was picked up this last week, 2 months shy of 3 years.   

Hope things are going well with you and the family Mike.

[469 runner]

A few years ago I wanted to have a very solid 1970 roadrunner painted.  Needed a few patches here and there but no panel replacement.  Took it to a restoration shop that I knew would do it right.  After looking the car over carefully the owner told me he thought the car could be done for 17-20 thousand dollars.  That would be body and paint, including trunk, undercarriage, and engine bay on a rotisserie.  Would probably take 4-5 months. This was with 45 dollars an hour labor rate.  The owner would not put the estimate into writing as he said he couldn't be held to a price...too many variables, I understand that.  Figured it might go a little higher.

Well, it went a lot higher.  35 thousand when all was said and done.  These projects can really get away from you.  When the car had reached the 20 thousand mark and still had a long ways to go what does one do?  Take the car out?  At 20 thousand the body was stripped, on rotisserie, front sheetmetal and doors ready for paint and undercarriage blasted and primed, and frame connectors welded in.  So one keeps on, no choice.  Wife is not happy.  But the car is very nice.  No way worth what was put into it.  Keep it until I die and enjoy it.

These cars can be a heart ache.  Gotta really love them.  I've done 3 restorations now and am 51 years old.  Still have all three cars, all very nice now.  A 1970 Cuda, (Ucode), 1970 Roadrunner, and 1968 Charger.  I probably will never do another to the level these have been done.  Unless I win the lottery.

[DadsCharger00]

Got any pics of these cars guys?  we ALL like pictures! And thanks Tim. Spent the weekend at home. Looks like we will be sending dad off to the mayo clinic. Still at a loss with his current ailments. So to the pros they go!

[Homerr]

Keep a body/paint shop on a short leash by paying them as they progress.  And keep checking up every couple of weeks.  Not because they are necessarily trying to screw you, just that some body and paint guys are not great at communication and people skills.  Keep the dialogue going and the carrot of money in front of them.

[Dino]

I've worked in many body shops and resto shops so I know how it goes.  Your grille is not going to bring instant money like the small fender bender jobs that are lining up, so it gets shoved to the back of the pile, over and over and over until there's nothing else to do but that grille.  That may take a while.

When you bring a part like this to a shop to have it redone you ask for a date and time when you can pick it up.  If they can't give you a date then you walk away.

When they do give you a date then you call a day or two ahead and tell them you'll be there on the given date and time, then hang up.  Either you're going home with a part that looked just like that part you dropped off earlier, but more dusty OR they're scrambling to get your grille done and get a bit of money.  Hence the two day in advance, if you only give them a few hours then your grille is gonna be done by the next door maaco.  

On full restos it works a bit different.  I always gave customers an estimate for a certain part of the job.  That way the amounts were fairly small and people could see the progress and decide what they want to do next.  I would give them a very rough estimate for the entire process and would tell them it can go anywhere from there.  So in order to make things more clear I would suggest that I first take the car apart or, if the customer had done this already, I would get the car down to bare metal and I would quote a fixed amount for that.  People like to know what they're paying for and why so much, so doing it this way makes it easier on all of us.  When the car was completely dismantled and blasted, we would have a very clear view of what all needed to be done so at that time I get the customer back in, we go over the options and cost and take it from there.  A lot of people who coul not afford the a to z process so they would let me do all the metal work and then come get their car back so they could prep it themselves. Or they would come and get the interior or engine or whatever they felt like they could do on their own.

You're paying for this work so they need to get cracking.

[HeavyFuel]

A few years ago I wanted to have a very solid 1970 roadrunner painted.  Needed a few patches here and there but no panel replacement.  Took it to a restoration shop that I knew would do it right.  After looking the car over carefully the owner told me he thought the car could be done for 17-20 thousand dollars.  That would be body and paint, including trunk, undercarriage, and engine bay on a rotissere.  Would probably take 4-5 months. This was with 45 dollars an hour labor rate.  The owner would not put the estimate into writing as he said he couldn't be held to a price...to many variables, I understand that.  Figured it might go a little higher.

Well, it went a lot higher.  35 thousand when all was said and done.  These projects can really get away from you.  When the car had reached the 20 thousand mark and still had a long ways to go what does one do?  Take the car out?  At 20 thousand the body was stripped, on rotater, front sheetmetal and doors ready for paint and undercarriage blasted and primed, and frame connectors welded in.  So one keeps on, no choice.  Wife is not happy.  But the car is very nice.  No way worth what was put into it.  Keep it until I die and enjoy it.

These cars can be a heart ache.  Gotta really love them.  I've done 3 restorations now and am 51 years old.  Still have all three cars, all very nice now.  A 1970 Cuda, (Ucode), 1970 Roadrunner, and 1968 Charger.  I probably will never do another to the level these have been done.  Unless I win the lottery.

As they say, "Good, Fast or Cheap....pick two."

My body was at the shop for 6 years......waaay  too long.  But like 469 said, sometimes it tough to pull it from a guy that's got it and get in line at another shop that might do the same thing to you.

I only paid 7k for the body/paint, and hopefully it turns out to be good, cause I sure got hosed on the "fast" part of the equation.

[Old Moparz]

If it hasn't been touched by now I would be at the shop as soon as possible to pick it up.  

Did you give him a deposit?

Has any work been done to it that he will charge you for?

I learned an expensive lesson a long time ago with a body shop not getting to the work. Having a new excuse for why it wasn't touched every new deadline is a huge red flag. My biggest fear at this point in time is that a fragile plastic grille has more damage to it than when you dropped it off or that they decide to rush it to shut you up & it turns out like a POS that you have to pay for to retrieve.

[469 runner]

The thing is, if it is a good shop that does really outstanding work, there is no way an accurate estimate of cost and time can be given.  They simply work on it until the panels are straight before moving on to the next step, which usually is paint. And even after the paint is applied there is still much work to be done.  Aligning panels, color sanding and buffing, all this can easily add 40-50 hours to a job.  And, none of this can really be rushed or it is back one or two stages to repaint a whole panel.  Materials have gotten very expensive too; paint, primers, masking tape and paper, body fillers, sandpapers, sandblasting sand, body stripper, mixing paddles and so on.  Even the shop workers masks, gloves and painting suit.  
A lot of stuff that many folks don't realize to do a job right.  It can add up quickly.

Not to get off subject, but all just adding up to the bodyshop nightmare.

[Daytona R/T SE]

It'll be four years in May.

This is the last one.

I quit.

[Polygon]

Well, I would like to see some pictures of these long term projects.....completed.

Were you happy with the bodywork/paint, if not the price?

[Wicked72]

Luckly Im friends with the owner and half the ppl that run my local body which is also the best in MD. They usually push me through and get it done and they make damn sure its perfect to  so i guess that makes me the a hole that slows everyone elses projects down.

[mauve66]

after reading this i don't even want to take mine to a shop now, guess it'll never get done.....................

[DadsCharger00]

Worst part is I know the guy. Were friends. We hang out.  I know the grill isn't busted...yet.  but I'm there on a regular basis because his shop connects to my tattoo guy.  Juat really frustrating because he wanted to partner up for awhile and flip motorcycles together but this whole situation makes a guy question any type of investment.

[GreatPumpkin]

here is a reasonable solution for any cars in the midwest area located, or transportable, near Green Bay Wisconsin.
I restore muscle cars. Its all I do.
I do amazing work at 25 dollars an hour.
Have been doing it for 35 years.
Basic single stage factory enamels to full base coat clear coat systems.
Everything is hand wet sanded to 3000 grit and polished out to a freaking mirror.
I do it all.
I love this shit, I cant get enough.
I work on 1 car at a time so yours will get ALL my personal attention every day.
My overhead is extremely low because I work out of the same insignificant tiny buildings that I have for decades.
I dont even advertise, (this response is an exception because the topic is fresh)
If you need help with your project, pm me and send me some detailed picts so I know what I am potentailly dealing with.
I can do amazing things in 4 months time with practically any project.
I love bodywork and paint, its an Art form. You will be satisfied.
Nuff said...

[fizz]

I am going to get in trouble here. I did body work for 10 years after teck school in the 80s. We were paid commission back then. This means whatever the Boss estimated I got paid by the hr for the estimated hrs. If we found something extra either the customer paid for it or we did it for no pay. We wouldn't know until the customer picked up the car if we would get paid, if he squealed  you just can't sqeeze blood out of a turnip. Calling before we did the work didn't work because the time it takes to get the owner there and resolve it usually takes more time than to just fix it (or not), and there only so many stalls to have cars sitting dead in. Estimates are called this because so much can be hidden by other panels or old body work. We had owners not disclose bad work they knew was there I suppose because they thought then we would have to fix it for free. If you are twenty some years old with 2 kids and a house payment how many hours are you willing to work for for free. Now not very many shops pay by commission anymore but how many hours are they going to pay a guy to work if they aren't going to get paid for it.
There are shops out there that specialize in this type of work. Ask a guy with a really nice car who did the work and if he was happy with them. Hire them. Pay them. Don't shop for the cheap guy. Or do this dirty, time consuming work yourself and quit whining.

[Cooter]

I been on here enough to read about the troubles with paint/body guys when it comes to working on these cars. I've had my grill at the paint booth now since mid DECEMBER waiting for it to have tabs repaired and paint. Guy keeps saying "I'll get to it as soon as this is done. Should have it done by the weekend." I think I've heard this now for a solid month. So I would like to hear a few stories of the horrors of the paint and body guy trouble! May make me feel better!

Not breakin' yer balls or nothin' BUT.....
I've said it before and I'll say it again......

NEVER take a restoration to a bodyshop. Your heartache will only get worse. they are in the business of quick/easy insurance money..NOT, some guy who's gonna critique every detail of their work as if they are repairing a car for the royal family or something. In and out. Quick.

Bodyshops are quick to take in these jobs when times seem slow, but then they pick up and before long you have what you are dealing with now.

[UH60L]

I dropped my charger off in February of 2008 with an oral estimate of $10,000.00 to $12,000.00 and I told them I wanted to be diving it that summer because I was deploying to Iraq the following January.

I got the car dropped off at my house still not complete on December 2rd of 2008 with a cost of $24,000.00 and change and they didn't put in the new glass, restore and put back in the headlight support or grill, or even put in all the fender bolts............

I got a bunch of boxes of un-labeled parts, some if which I am still trying to figure out......

After getting the car back I had the engine and tranny in in a few days and if the car had been back to the point it was at when I dropped it off, I'd be driving it today.......but as is and with my financial situation now, I can't finish it.....


And they said they didn't make any money off of me, I beg to differ at over $60.00 and hour for labor.  The $24,000.00 didn't include the price of all the body panels and such that I provided.......

[ottawamerc]

I know this story all to well but I have a different spin on it, anyone who may know my my situation with my 71 restore. I have had the car for 2 years now and started a "quick" cleanup ( some blisters and bad paint) in the fall of the first year, well I found like so many of us that its not whats seen on the outside that determines the time required to fix them. Now how does this apply to problems at the shop? well I think I learned 2 valuable lessons with my car 1: go to the guy that's referred to you by others in the know. I did this and it has paid off tremendously, I met an awesome auto body restorer that treats it like artwork. He also has the uncanny ability to communicate each step required and "real" cost to get them done. We setup a schedule that he could show me how to do certain tasks, welding, fabrication, filler,etc. etc. That way I could save lots by doing this work myself now comes to light my 2nd lesson as to why the reason the cars are in the shop sooo long, THIS PREP WORK TAKES FOR EVER!!!!!!!!!! now 1 1/2 years later my car is finally ready for paint. When I started out I thought I was on track to have it ready for paint last June but John set my dead lines way later than that. As for costs hes been very accurate on them and if I wasnt able to do the endless hours of work myself this car would be the largest waste of money I ever spent but John told me early into it that I need to remember its a hobby something to enjoy and learn at and not rush, great advice!

[fizz]

Exactly, I offer to teach people how to do their own work when they ask me to do theirs( I don't do it for living any more) they just need to show up when I am working on mine. I even offer to help with some of the parts that require more skill like welding sheetmetal, etc. 0 takers. Not willing to put in the commitment

[GreatPumpkin]

I can say that many guys over the past few years have become somewhat spoiled by some of these modern "reality" shows that are shown on TV. (you know what I am talking about) They watch these shows religiously and believe that this is somehow related to real life, and that's how you "restore" high value quality automobiles.
.
I can tell you with 100% confidence that if you let ME examine every square inch of a chip F resto mod close up with a high intensity light 2 months after the "project" is complete, I WILL find flaws and imperfections that would never leave my tiny shop. You simply can NOT do quality body and paint work that fast and allow for the inevitable shrinkage that will occur as the filler and primer bases gas off over a period of time. There will be things that will magically appear in areas that have been worked that would drive a purist crazy if seen in the right angle of light. 
.
Of course the "reality" cars are not examined to that level and the majority of people dont care about such tiny things, but when a hard working blue collar guy is paying you to work on one of his most prized possessions, you OWE it to him to make it beautiful and last a long time.  That takes TIME and patience, and great skill. The reality is many many hours of dirty dirty hard work that can be quite dangerous to your body and lungs in many ways.  So you better find a guy that loves your "project" almost as much as you do and pay him a fair working wage to "help" you attain your dream. And it should take 4 or 5 months at the most depending on how screwed up it was to start with..




.

[Cooter]

Exactly, I offer to teach people how to do their own work when they ask me to do theirs( I don't do it for living any more) they just need to show up when I am working on mine. I even offer to help with some of the parts that require more skill like welding sheetmetal, etc. 0 takers. Not willing to put in the commitment

You know that is kinda funny right? I've had the pleasure of trying to SHOW people what's involved in a restoration/body job and after they see, AND DO about 3months of block sanding, they too admit they had NO IDEA it was THAT much work. I then offer to them Maaco will paint it for $200....

I've done it, but for the life of me I can never understand how NO RESEARCH is done on a GOOD Paint job costing over $10K nowadays. They always throw that sh*t in my face. "Well, I gotta guy who already did all the bodywork, so I'm not paying YOU $10K just to spray the damn thing"....

I just laugh when i have to tell them I've got to completely RE-DO all their "buddies" bodywork...As SOON as I spray his shoddy bodywork and make all his "waves" shine, they blame ME for it.

[Cooter]

I can say that many guys over the past few years have become somewhat spoiled by some of these modern "reality" shows that are shown on TV. (you know what I am talking about) They watch these shows religiously and believe that this is somehow related to real life, and that's how you "restore" high value quality automobiles.

That there is bout the Gospel if I've heard it. People will blame anybody but themsleves for a shoddy paint/body job. Everybody WANTS that badass, flawless, paint like a mirror, paint job, but like everything else in this day and age, they want it YESTERDAY and don't want to pay for it.
What kills me is the fact that many shrug off my $10K quote and go pay Maaco $1500.00 and BRAG about how "great" it looks for the money.. When If I paint it, MY REPUTATION is on their car. If I paint it, I don't want to hear "yeah, Cooter screwed up my car, but I'm not gonna tell you that I backed him up against a wall and refused to pay more than $1000.00 for a $10K body/paint job"....

[fizz]

I just painted an old indian motorcycle I own last weekend. 6 hrs to sandblast the parts, 12 hrs of sanding , metal finishing some dings and priming. 4 hrs of sanding primer and getting ready for paint. 4 hrs of sealing and painting. Now about 2 hrs per part to wet sand and buff. $250 for a quart of single stage paint.(custom match to and original color) $170 for 2 part primer to get in a red oxide color, $110 for hardener and reducer for the paint. All the small items like sandpaper and tools I had. I'll be damned if I'll go through that much work for somebody else and listen to them snivel about price and how fast I can get it done. A real motorhead should be able to do the work themselves anyway. A sign in a buddies shop says "IF YOU DIDN'T BUILD IT YOURSELF IT AIN'T REALLY YOURS"

[DadsCharger00]

I can say that many guys over the past few years have become somewhat spoiled by some of these modern "reality" shows that are shown on TV. (you know what I am talking about) They watch these shows religiously and believe that this is somehow related to real life, and that's how you "restore" high value quality automobiles.

That there is bout the Gospel if I've heard it. People will blame anybody but themsleves for a shoddy paint/body job. Everybody WANTS that badass, flawless, paint like a mirror, paint job, but like everything else in this day and age, they want it YESTERDAY and don't want to pay for it.
What kills me is the fact that many shrug off my $10K quote and go pay Maaco $1500.00 and BRAG about how "great" it looks for the money.. When If I paint it, MY REPUTATION is on their car. If I paint it, I don't want to hear "yeah, Cooter screwed up my car, but I'm not gonna tell you that I backed him up against a wall and refused to pay more than $1000.00 for a $10K body/paint job"....

AMEN MY BROTHER! 

[ottawamerc]

I can say that many guys over the past few years have become somewhat spoiled by some of these modern "reality" shows that are shown on TV. (you know what I am talking about) They watch these shows religiously and believe that this is somehow related to real life, and that's how you "restore" high value quality automobiles.

That there is bout the Gospel if I've heard it. People will blame anybody but themsleves for a shoddy paint/body job. Everybody WANTS that badass, flawless, paint like a mirror, paint job, but like everything else in this day and age, they want it YESTERDAY and don't want to pay for it.
What kills me is the fact that many shrug off my $10K quote and go pay Maaco $1500.00 and BRAG about how "great" it looks for the money.. When If I paint it, MY REPUTATION is on their car. If I paint it, I don't want to hear "yeah, Cooter screwed up my car, but I'm not gonna tell you that I backed him up against a wall and refused to pay more than $1000.00 for a $10K body/paint job"....

Cooter you hit the nail right on the head, that there my friend is the truth want to believe it or not it is

[Old Moparz]

Worst part is I know the guy. Were friends. We hang out.  I know the grill isn't busted...yet.  but I'm there on a regular basis because his shop connects to my tattoo guy.  Juat really frustrating because he wanted to partner up for awhile and flip motorcycles together but this whole situation makes a guy question any type of investment.

The fact that you are questioning it is good & that you "may have learned" from the grille experience with your friend about how he operates. If he's your friend & you want to keep it that way, don't become partners in any business related venture. That doesn't mean he's a bad person or that he plans to rip you off or take advantage of you, only that his work ethic may differ from yours enough to ruin the friendship.   

[remta1]

made the mistake when i was younger by telling the bodyshop guy to "just work on itt when he had a chance "  :brickwall:big mistake ..got a really good guy now though